• Jacki Livingston

    You know, I am sure that cynics will nitpick. And I am pretty sure about idiocy in government being hard to fix. However, if Fullerton has changed, even a little, then they are leading the way. Cities like Costa Mesa and Orange are blind. I think they deserve to get some credit for making a positive change. And, for those who do not think it is enough, get off your duff and help.

  • RyanCantor

    “Marie Avena, founder and executive director of Coast to Coast, echoed Hughes’ sentiment. ‘It’s a community issue, not a police or nonprofit problem.’ ”

    Nicely put.

    • LFOldTimer

      It is a police issue since cops come in contact with homeless people all the time. As such, it is their issue, like it or not. Otherwise it’s as dumb as saying drug and alcohol abuse is not a police issue. Marie Avena is out to lunch on this one IMO.

      • RyanCantor

        Using law enforcement to address social crises is an overly expensive short term mitigation to a chronic long term need.

        In short, it’s not smart. It’s not a police issue. These folks aren’t committing crimes. We can do better.

        • David Zenger

          Years After Thomas Beating, Fullerton Police Have New Approach to Homeless

          The very headline suggests it is a police issue – because, of course, the cops have to enforce the anti-camping laws on the books, and whatever unofficial standards are passed down to them or that they concoct – off the books.

          Too bad the summary killing of Kelly Thomas is being linked to the new, improved (yet, somehow unreconstructed) version of the FPD, because the killing (some still say murder) had zero to do with a lack of “education” and “training” that would appear to make Wolfe and Ramos into victims themselves.

          • LFOldTimer

            The police use the “lack of training” excuse for everything these days, David. It’s a phony dodge. They know it and they know we know it. But no one in political positions of authority calls them out. Why? Because it’s a big club. That’s why.

        • LFOldTimer

          “Using law enforcement to address social crises is an overly expensive short term mitigation to a chronic long term need.”
          That doesn’t even make any sense. So should the police stop responding to family disturbances that are caused by a variety of social dysfunctions (drugs, alcohol, poverty, PTSD, hormone imbalances, mental illness, etc…) to cut down on expenditures caused by factors beyond their control? I think you should rethink your position.
          Look, the police just don’t show up and contact a homeless person unless he or she is suspected of violating some ordinance or law. They don’t show up to “homeless man is hungry” calls. So I don’t know what you even mean. You lost me.

        • RyanCantor

          Alright you two, if you want to represent that the primary interaction between “The State” and the homeless ought to be law enforcement, be my guest.

          That’s going to be a lonely island you’re occupying, but it’s yours if you want it.

          • LFOldTimer

            I never said that the primary interaction between The State and the Homeless should be the cops, Ryan. You’re putting words in my mouth. Didn’t you read my previous comments? The cops shouldn’t respond to a citizen complaint about a homeless man who is hungry, wearing tattered clothing or happens to wander into a high-brow neighborhood and is visually upsetting to the rich people. That’s why we have social workers. The only time cops should get involved (as with any other contact) is when there is a question whether a crime has been committed or a service call or a citizen needs assistance (e.g. an elderly person fell in their home and can’t get up). You’re the one who somehow believes that police should not interact with the homeless population. That’s a silly notion.

          • RyanCantor

            LFOldtimer, you just conceded the point that this isn’t a police issue, (“The only time cops should get involved . . .”) which is the entire point of both the article (“What I’ve tried to discuss in the past is that homelessness is … a social issue that the police have been pretty much forced to try to deal with.”– Hughes) and my comments.

            In any case, I’m glad to hear you’ve sworn off the lonely island.

          • Jacki Livingston

            And, let me add, homeless men, women and children are far more likely to be the victims of crime, than those who are not homeless. Homeless women are raped at a percentage 60% higher than other women. Homeless children are molested at a higher rate. They suffer robbery, assault, murder and property crime. The homeless are citizens and the crimes against them should be looked at, as well.

          • LFOldTimer

            “LFOldtimer, you just conceded the point that this isn’t a police issue, (“The only time cops should get involved . . .”) which is the entire point of both the article…..”
            Again, I didn’t concede anything, Ryan. Read my comments more than once. Maybe that would help with your ability to comprehend. I said police contact with the homeless should only occur if there was a report of a crime that involved a homeless person OR if a service call is needed (the homeless person is incapacitated or injured). IOW’s if a homeless person is hungry, soiled or doesn’t have enough money to purchase food – that is not a police matter and the police should not get involved. It depends on the situation. But it stands to reason that the homeless are vulnerable on the streets and will probably come in police contact more than the average person. There. Is that clear enough for you?

          • RyanCantor

            You need to relax OldTimer. This thread is several days old. Let it go.

            And that’s the second time you conceded the same point. (That means we’re on the same page. Calm down.)

          • LFOldTimer

            So you tell me to “let it go” while you come back for another round? ha. I guess you ran out of arguments after I took you to the woodshed so you had to make it personal. ha. When people make it personal it generally means they’ve lost the debate. Want some more? back it up.

          • RyanCantor

            The woodshed?! My suggestion to relax is for your good, not mine.

            Alright, bro. Good luck to you. Hopefully some good comes from our discussion on improving conditions for the homeless.

          • David Zenger

            “…if you want to represent that the primary interaction between “The State” and the homeless ought to be law enforcement, be my guest.”

            Whoa, who said that?

          • Jacki Livingston

            I have to agree with you, Ryan, that it should not be that way. But, sadly, the homeless encounter police daily, while most of us turn our eyes away and ignore them. The police should have resources that they can refer anyone in need to. But, the truth is, their job is to protect all of the citizens. They are underfunded and understaffed and they are not social workers. Officers can, however, treat the homeless with compassion and respect, because they are citizens in the community. But, for once, I have to agree with you on an issue. It should NOT be that way. But, sadly, it is.

  • David Zenger

    “Thomas’ death revealed the dearth of resources and training at the
    department for dealing with Fullerton’s homeless population, which is
    among the largest in the county.”

    Well, that’s the narrative we are supposed to believe, courtesy of Fullerton’s liberals and the police department. In fact, Kelly Thomas was singled out, harassed, threatened, attacked and killed. Lack of “understanding” or “resources” is simply an exculpatory diversion. Thomas had a target on his back.

    • LFOldTimer

      Good Christ. They spin everything, don’t they, David? Vicious police homicide beatings of the homeless. Cops illegally using informants in the jails. Jail escapes from maximum security facilities. Cops said to be lying on the stand and withholding material evidence in criminal cases then taking the 5th! These people are worse than a 7 year old who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. And at the salaries and benefits we pay them they’re supposed to solid as rocks when it comes to ethics and taking accountability for their actions. But all we get is one flimsy excuse after another. The makings of a police state. Isn’t there anyone in local elected government office with the gonads to stand up to these adult children and tell them to put their big boy pants on???

    • buzzookaman

      Well said thank you !

  • LFOldTimer

    I would like to talk with a few homeless folks in Fullerton to determine whether things have really changed, or whether it’s all window dressing for public consumption. Next door in Anaheim I understand that they treat the homeless like garbage. I have no idea who this VOC reporter is or his background. But it’s a shame that it took a brutal and vicious homicide at the hands of the police to change things. And it wasn’t just the cops on the street who were responsible. It was the executive management in the FPD. The administrative stuff that happened after the beating to cover up or attempt to downplay the severity of the beating was just as despicable as what happened on the street. And not one executive head rolled over it. In fact, most of those involved in the attempted cover-up were promoted. Same ‘ol same ‘ol. The more things change the more they stay the same.