Alleviating Dental Health Disparities With Long-Distance Care

Jazley Faith Sendjaja for Voice of OC

Katherine Turcios, 5, is among the first patients in a new teledentistry program designed to get care to underserved children.

Five-year-old Katherine Turcios looked skeptical as a hygienist held up a pen-sized dental instrument for the kindergartener to examine.

“No pica,” the hygienist told Katherine, assuring her it wouldn’t hurt. Then she placed it in the child’s hand so she could see for herself that it wasn’t sharp.

During her hour-long appointment at Danbrook Elementary in Anaheim, a specially qualified hygienist and two assistants took Katherine’s X-rays and photos. Then they uploaded the images for review by a dentist who was miles away and would get back to them with a treatment plan within 48 hours.

By the time Katherine climbed down from the chair to return to her classroom, a gathering of school officials were there to cheer her on.

She was among the first patients of Danbrook’s new teledentistry program, a pilot effort in what its creators believe is a key strategy for eliminating dental health disparities statewide.

“We would hope this becomes a successful model to deliver care in all underserved communities,” said Ria Berger, CEO of nonprofit dental provider Healthy Smiles for Kids of Orange County in Garden Grove.

Healthy Smiles is working with medical clinics to roll out the teledentistry effort in three more Orange County schools and 24 Head Start programs by spring of 2017.

Close But Not Accessible

It’s not unusual to upload medical images from remote areas to specialists in far-away cities, but what’s surprising about the Anaheim model is that it’s taking place in urban areas where dentists are plentiful.

But proximity doesn’t always mean access. Even though 70 percent of the kids at Danbrook are publicly insured through California’s Denti-Cal program, finding a dentist who accepts Denti-Cal can be difficult.

In April, an independent state agency wrote a scathing report calling for an overhaul of Denti-Cal, criticizing its low reimbursement rates and outdated bureaucracy. The report said that dentist participation in the program has declined by 15 percent since 2008 despite 5 million new patients.

One recommendation from the report, by the Little Hoover Commission, was to support legislation AB 648, which would establish a grant program to more widely implement the teledentistry model being put in place in Orange County. AB 648 made it through the Assembly in June and is awaiting Senate action.

Battle Tested

The Danbrook program replicates a model tested over six years in 50 sites around the state and designed by Paul Glassman of University of the Pacific School of Dentistry in San Francisco.

A study in June confirmed the benefits of the model, called the Virtual Dental Home, which assigns specially qualified hygienists to work on site – at schools, community centers and senior centers. The dental staff brings portable equipment, including a reclining chair, X-ray camera and water pic, holding office hours every week and sending records to dentists electronically to supervise treatment.

The study found that the majority of children participating received all the care they needed on site without having to go on to a dentist office and with no adverse outcomes reported.

“Through our model, we were able to keep two thirds of our patients healthy with only hygienists touching them. That’s a huge advance over what traditionally happens in populations where they get no care until the disease is advanced, and then they end up in the emergency room of a hospital,” Glassman said.

The demonstration not only sought to prove that teledentistry can deliver sound oral health care but that it can do it more economically.

“We can keep people healthy at a much lower cost,” Glassman said. And by working remotely, “We can reach people who aren’t being reached.”

Under Glassman’s model, specially credentialed hygienists can fill most cavities on site with a temporary filling expected to last for the life of the baby tooth. This method doesn’t require a drill or needles. Other on-site procedures include cleaning, fluoride application and sealants if necessary.

Barriers to care

Gaps in insurance aren’t the only reason why lower income children don’t get dental care. Some don’t have insurance; at Danbrook, Healthy Smiles will examine uninsured patients and offer them fluoride varnish. Uninsured patients needing further treatment will be steered toward Denti-Cal enrollment or referred to Healthy Smiles’ dental offices off site.

But even among the insured, some parents don’t have a car or they can’t take the time off during the work week, a common problem at Danbrook, said Elisa Briseno, director of program development at Healthy Smiles.

Some barriers are educational, she said. While many parents are strict with “no candy” policies, they don’t always realize the effects of sugar drinks. And the bacteria that causes baby teeth to rot will do the same to the adult teeth that replace them, experts say. Further, family members pass the bacteria to one another, which is why dental decay is now viewed as an infectious disease.

One result is 51 million lost school hours each year in the U.S.

Principal Ligia Valera is well familiar with the effects of poor dental care on students, which is one reason she is excited about the teledentistry program coming to her school, Wilson Elementary in Santa Ana.

“Right now I have a parent who came to me yesterday and said, ‘Is it true there will be some dentists on campus for my kid? His teeth are rotted’,” Valera recalled. Other students rely on numbing medications for toothaches or feel self-conscious about their breath or smiles.

Tomas Alvarez of Anaheim, whose daughter Emily was among the first dental patients at Danbrook, said he was grateful for the convenience of on-site care. While he tries to take his kids to the dentist every six months, he hasn’t always managed it during times when the family didn’t have a car.

When it came time for Emily’s school dental appointment, he asked if he could sit in because he wanted to know how the kids would be treated. Not only was he glad she got X rays and a cleaning, he appreciated being made to feel welcome. And Emily had no complaints.

“When she got home she said she was happy that everyone treated her nice. She even got hugs from the dental assistants,” he said.

This article was originally published by the California Health Report.

Amy DePaul is a Voice of OC contributing writer and lecturer in the University of California, Irvine Literary Journalism program. You can reach her directly at depaula@uci.edu.

  • Pingback: Planet DDS’ Denticon Practice Management Software Enables Healthy Smiles for California Children - Press Release Rocket()

  • LFOldTimer

    Teledentistry is a new innovative approach to identify dental problems and form a treatment plan.

    But teledentistry won’t fill a cavity today or in 10 years on.

    Dentists do not go through 8 years of a very competitive academic regimen in higher education to break even financially in their career practices. And the Denti-Cal reimbursement rate practically makes their work a charitable event for the dentist.

    And many new general practice dentists exit dental school with $300,000 or more in student debt. That has to be repaid.

    No wonder there has been a 15% decline in Denti-Cal dentist enrollment since 2008.

    And as our population of poor people grows it will put more pressure on the dentists who remain in the Denti-Cal business. So expect the disenrollment to grow as our population of poor people grows.

    This is not rocket science.

    We are already seeing the after-effects of ObamaCare. Premiums for those with middle-class incomes are skyrocketing. Major healthcare companies are exiting ObamaCare. ObamaCare is imploding. Everyone (even the democrats) agree it’s in failure mode Why? Because employers and those forced to buy health insurance have to pay for the growing number of people who have no insurance.

    This was obvious to me when Congress approved the Affordable Care Act (ACA) A few years later reality is rearing it’s ugly head.

    We are going to see a huge crisis in the US healthcare system in the not-too-distant future. We already spend about 20% of our GDP on healthcare ($1 of every $5) and quality of care continues to decline.

    • annomouse

      Umm, could you explain this?

      “Because employers and those forced to buy health insurance have to pay for the growing number of people who have no insurance.”

      You obviously have no understanding of how the AffordableCare Act works or what its done. I know you want to find any opportunity to bash “Obamacare”, but you really should at least try and find a SENSICAL reason. By any measure “Obamacare” has brought down the number of people who are uninsured.

      “Current Uninsured Rate
      According to the CDC and Census data, for the first three months of of 2016 the uninsured rate is 8.6% down from 9.2% last year, and from 15.7% before the Affordable Care Act was signed into law. For just the 18 -64 demographic the same study shows the uninsured rate at 11.9%, down from 13% in 2015, down from 22.3% in 2010 when the ACA was signed into law. These represent the lowest uninsured rates in over 50 years according to the studies (which are all based on census data).”

      • LFOldTimer

        Once again, you missed the entire point.

        ObamaCare is a failure. Even the democrats admit it now. Obama told us that the average family premium would fall by $2500, that we would keep our doctors and our health plans. All lies. In some states premiums are increasing by 50% or more. The premiums and deductibles for the low-end Bronze plans are skyrocketing. The deductibles are so high most families don’t meet them by the end of the year. Plus, MAJOR health care plans are pulling out of ObamaCare.

        ObamaCare is on life-support. Deal with it.

        Many of us predicted this. Many of us knew ObamaCare was a big fat lie when Congress passed it before taking the time to read it. ha.

        The chickens are coming home to roost. We told you so!

        • annomouse

          Once again, you’re dodging and weaving on the FACT that the Affordable Care Act has LOWERED the number of people in this country that are uninsured.
          YOU WERE WRONG and just can’t admit it. Face it, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

          • LFOldTimer

            How could I be wrong when I never even mentioned the enrollment numbers in ObamaCare or the the percentage of the nation that has insurance coverage?

            Are you having problems with your eyes or is it just difficult for you to process information?

            At this point what difference does it make (in Hillary’s words) if more people are insured but ObamaCare is failing as a viable health care system? Duh?

            Your avoidance and diversions from the valid points that I made in my previous comments are very telling. The fact is you have no rational counterarguments to my assertions. You know I’m right and you just can’t stand it. ha.

            But thanks for playing anyway.

          • annomouse

            What part of “growing number of people who have no insurance.” did I misinterpret?

          • LFOldTimer

            Oh, you mean this sentence:

            “Because employers and those forced to buy health insurance have to pay for the growing number of people who have no insurance” ?

            Read slowly: As indigents continue to flow over the borders (who have no health insurance) someone has to pay for them when they get sick. That falls onto the shoulders of those who pay for their insurance (in other words those who don’t get free medical care) or their employers who have to pay for them in form of higher premiums. Why do you think both premiums and deductibles are increasing by 50% or more for 2016-17? Duh?

            There is no free lunch. The working middle-class are now slaves to the health care system. They are FORCED by law to buy health insurance while their premiums and deductibles are going viral so that all the poor get free healthcare.

            Read 3x’s a day for a week.

          • annomouse

            “Read slowly: As indigents continue to flow over the borders (who have no health insurance) someone has to pay for them when they get sick.”

            Why would that be the fault of “Obamacare”?

          • LFOldTimer

            I guess you haven’t kept up.

            Those who are in the country illegally in California are eligible for Medi-Cal under the ObamaCare or Covered California systems..

            Do I have to explain everything to you?

          • annomouse

            But genius, those people are insured.

          • LFOldTimer

            Obama is a proven liar. Many times over. I’ve already given you documented examples.

            Break out of your denial.

          • annomouse

            Ha ha ha, that’s rich coming from a Trump supporter.

          • LFOldTimer

            Duh?

            They still use the ER for free!!! The only difference is that now we’re paying for their health insurance!!!

            Try connecting the dots!

            Bleeding heart libs love financing their social programs with other people’s money!

          • annomouse

            People who have health insurance don’t go to the the ER for routine medical care. That’s the difference between being insured and being uninsured. Using the ER for basic medical issues is the most expensive form of health care.

            When people have health insurance they can go to their own doctors and address medical issues BEFORE they become catastrophic. Preventative care helps reduce medical costs.

          • LFOldTimer

            So again, you approve of working Americans who are FORCED BY LAW to purchase health care insurance to pay higher premiums and deductibles to subsidize the medical care given to illegal foreigners living in California who are provided free medical coverage and/or free insurance?

            A “yes” or a “no” will suffice. No need for more spin or diversions.

            Just let us know where you stand.

          • annomouse

            Where have you found that illegals are given “free insurance”? Please be specific.

          • LFOldTimer

            Either you failed to read my comment ^^^^^ with the California Healthline link – or – you read it and refused to acknowledge it.

            Illegal foreigners under 19 years of age are eligible for FREE MEDI-CAL insurance in California today. The bill was signed by the governor over 6 months ago,

            That’s reality.

            Now, could I get a “yes” or a “no” to my previous question and forego the spin?

          • annomouse

            You’re right I did fail to read your comment with the Ca Healthline because it didn’t post right away, so get your nose back in joint.

            You do know (eye roll) that the SB-4 Health care coverage Bill was passed here in CA because the federal government explicitly excludes undocumented immigrants from eligibility and financial help for coverage under federal programs, including Medicaid and the Affordable Care Act.

            So whatever your beef with it, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMACARE!

            And YES, I believe in health care for all. Health insurance works best when we all participate and health care is more cost effective when people have access to preventative care. Personally, I’d like to see single-payer or Medicare for all.
            Health care is a human right.

            So you view providing medical insurance and care as a win-lose, I see it as a win-win.

          • LFOldTimer

            Of course it had to do with ObamaCare.

            Covered California is HEAVILY subsidized with Federal dollars. Who do you think gives the subsidies for the exchange premiums? Rumpelstiltskin?

            Federal dollars are used to fund MediCal as well. Educate yourself.

            Oh good. Now we know that you approve of hard working California citizens who pay enormous insurance premiums and deductibles to be FORCED by law to subsidize free health care insurance for illegal foreigners who shouldn’t even be in the country in the first place.

            Speaks for itself.

            PS – you were WRONG about illegal foreigners by claiming they are ineligible for free MediCal insurance too. But, of course, you won’t admit it.

            Enjoy the rest of your day.

          • annomouse

            From what I can tell CA SB-4 is paid for out of CA’s general fund and is in no way subsidized by Obamacare.

            “However, Lara last month removed from the bill language seeking the federal waiver, citing difficulty in garnering support that late in the legislative session (California Healthline, 9/9).

            Instead, eligible children already receiving limited public health care will be automatically enrolled in comprehensive Medi-Cal coverage under the new law.”

            http://californiahealthline.org/morning-breakout/new-law-will-expand-medical-to-170k-undocumented-children/
            *****
            “The Governor’s budget proposes $19.1 billion General Fund for Medi–Cal. This is an increase of $1.4 billion—or 8 percent—above the estimated 2015–16 spending level. This year–over–year increase is due to several factors, such as projected increases in caseload and the loss of General Fund savings due to the impending sunset of the managed care organization (MCO) tax and the hospital quality assurance fee (QAF).”

            http://www.lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3350

            So tell me again what this has to do with Obamacare?

          • LFOldTimer

            In 2015 the government spent over $400 billion in Federal tax dollars on Medicare, Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), and Affordable Care Act (ACA).

            So to answer your question – yes, the Feds pay for MediCal by matching state expenditures.

            Go do your research.

          • annomouse

            Again, it looks like CA paid for SB-4 out of the CA general fund, which means the extra costs for that program were paid for by Californians and did not incur extra Federal dollars. They were going to try for an ACA waiver but withdrew it.

            Again, the Affordable Care Act rules SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

            When will you admit that point? And while you’re at it you might admit how the number of uninsured Americans has gone DOWN since the implementation of Obamacare.

          • LFOldTimer

            Federal law specifically prohibits illegal foreigners from residing in America. But the law is ignored, isn’t it dear?

            If you research the Federal budget you would see that the Feds match MediCal (MediCaid) state funds dollar for dollar with Federal funds. 100’s of billions of Federal tax dollars are spent on MediCaid and Medi-Cal. So the Feds fund a large part of MediCal. MediCal is not solely funded by the state. Why won’t you admit to that? Arrogance?

            I can lead you to the watering hole. I can’t make you drink. 🙂

          • annomouse

            I admit that Medi-Cal gets federal dollars, but SB-4 is not getting federal support.
            Last year the state put 19.1 billion towards Medi-Cal out of the general fund and got 17.1 billion from the federal government. So, not matched dollar for dollar and just like with the Hyde Amendment some federal dollars can’t be used for some purposes (paying for health care for undocumented immigrants for instance). SB-4 is being paid for by some of that extra 2 billion the state is supplying out of the general fund.

            You are the very embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect, Mr. Smartypants.

          • LFOldTimer

            At this point what difference does it make (in Hillary’s words) which pot of taxes it comes out of? The taxpayers are still footing the bill. Last I heard working California citizens pay both State and Federal taxes.

            Bottom line is that premiums and deductibles for ObamaCare are spiking because somebody has to pay for all the people getting free healthcare in California. Premiums and deductibles are going up 50% in some places.

            Middle class citizens are being gouged to the bone to help foot the bill for illegal foreigners. I wouldn’t mind so much if Americans could go to Mexico and get free health care. But if we ever tried that they’d throw us into a dirt floor prison and feed us stale tortillas and contaminated aqua. They send their poor up here for Americans to take care of – but it’s not fair for us to send our poor down there. That’s a fair system. Isn’t it?

            Anyone with a bit of common sense and honesty knows how crooked the immigration system is and how it’s deteriorating the quality of life north of the border. Just open your eyes.

            But few people want to admit the truth any more.

          • annomouse

            Well, talk about makin’ sh*t up, I guess that’s what you gotta do when the FACTS fail you.

            “Bottom line is that premiums and deductibles for ObamaCare are spiking because somebody has to pay for all the people getting free healthcare in California. Premiums and deductibles are going up 50% in some places.”

            Please explain how the folks being subsidized are causing the spike in premiums?

            I bet you genuinely have no idea how Obamacare works. All you know is that you want to demonize the ACA in order to smear Obama. You really don’t care to learn the facts or understand how the ACA works or even how much it has helped your fellow americans.

          • LFOldTimer

            Naturally you can’t explain why ObamaCare premiums are rising by 50% or more in some places, even though your hero Obama told us that premiums would be reduced for families by an average of $2500. ha. Did you keep your doctor and health insurance plan, btw? Most people didn’t. Those were lies too. Weren’t they?

            Even the democrats agree that ObamaCare is on life support and is a failed system. Get on board.

            Apparently you have a hard time processing information. I explained why those getting free coverage are contributing to the rise in premiums and deductibles for the working class who are being gouged to the bone for their health insurance. I’m not going to explain it over and over again for your convenience. If you can’t get it the first time – there’s nothing more I can do.

          • annomouse

            LOL, your complete and total IGNORANCE about the ACA is astounding, considering how much you pontificate about it.

            LIE #1:

            “Did you keep your doctor and health insurance plan, btw? Most people didn’t.”

            WRONG!!!!

            “It’s important to note, only a small percentage of Americans use health insurance plans provided by the 2010 ACA.

            HHS states, 20 million people have enrolled in Obamacare since 2010, but there are about 319 million people in the U.S.

            This means, LESS THAN SEVEN PERCENT of Americans use Obamacare. The rest of the U.S. population is covered by their employer, Medicaid or Medi-Cal or by the U.S. Department of Veteran Affairs.”

            http://www.abc10.com/news/local/california/how-many-americans-are-affected-by-obamacare-price-hikes/341809982

            LIE #2

            “Bottom line is that premiums and deductibles for ObamaCare are spiking because somebody has to pay for all the people getting free healthcare in California.”

            WRONG!!!!

            People who receive subsidies aren’t the reason premiums are spiking, their healthcare is paid for.
            The ACA is PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE and many of those PRIVATE HEALTH INSURERS originally underpriced the health plans they offered, (actually the ACA costs are where the OBM predicted it would be in 2017). For health insurance to work you need the young and healthy to offset the old and sick, hence the mandate. Unfortunately they didn’t anticipate how many desperately ill people would enroll (maybe you think those folks should’ve been left to die?).

            Many of the problems could be fixed with better participation at the state level (those with the biggest premium hikes are those states actively undermining the ACA) and at the legislative level, but the Republicans refuse to fix any problems with the ACA (unlike the Dems, who helped fix MediCare part D, one party actually has the nation’s best interest in mind, go figure).
            The most obvious fix of course is to get a public option in the ACA so we wouldn’t be at the mercy of FOR PROFIT HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES. That’s the REAL reason health care is extra expensive in the U.S., the PROFIT driven model of health care.

          • LFOldTimer

            Your responses are so silly.

            What you don’t understand is that it’s all ObamaCare. Employers who purchase healthcare for their workers (In CA 45% of those with HC insurance get it from employers) must follow the ObamaCare guidelines and mandates. 9% of those with HC insurance have individual plans that fall under ObamaCare. 26% of the insured have MediCal. MediCal rules are governed by ObamaCare. The Feds fund half of the MediCal program. The State funds the other half. 10% have MediCare. MediCare is affected by ObamaCare. The Feds are stripping benefits from MediCare patients and forcing them to pay higher premiums to fill the holes created in other areas by ObamaCare.

            What you don’t understand is that it’s all interrelated. Health care is health care. There is only so much money to go around and some has to be taken from one basket to fill another.

            When insurance premiums and deductibles go higher it virtually affects all insurance markets – whether employer based, individual or government run like MediCal or MediCare.

            Those in the business know this. Opiners on comment boards generally don’t.

            And when more people are added to the free insurance or coverage programs – someone has to pay for their medical care. You can’t seem to wrap your brain around that concept for some reason. When an illegal crosses the border he or she is entitled to free medical care – either by joining MediCal or getting free treatment in the ER.

            Actually there is no such thing as FREE treatment. Someone has to pay for it. And that’s one reason the premiums and deductibles are rising.

            Sorry, I can’t make it any simpler than that. If you have any more questions call an insurance broker or your friendly ObamaCare representative.

            Btw, did you hear that Comey has opened up a new email investigation on dear Hillary???

            Some of the teflon is apparently wearing off. 🙂

          • annomouse

            No, it’s your responses that are silly, laughable and ridiculous. You don’t address things individually, but instead roll all your prejudices and delusions into one big muddy ball and call it an “answer”.

            Most everyone with employer based healthcare already had the protections that the ACA mandated and everyone who had MediCare, MediCaid and VA also had them.

            Furthermore you are pretending that healthcare costs weren’t rising prior to the ACA, not true:

            “Data from this period can be used to provide information on premium
            rate growth before the ACA.
            These data show that from 2008 to 2010 there
            was high and variable premium growth in the individual
            insurance market. Overall, premium growth averaged 10
            percent or more per year during this period before the
            implementation of the ACA. Growth rates were highly
            variable across states, with premiums rising by as little as
            3 percent or by as much as 21 percent. Across individual
            insurer filings there was even more variability; for example,
            in 2008, the top 1 percent of insurers raised rates by
            more than 28 percent.”

            http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/wp-content/uploads/publications/issue-brief/2014/jun/1750_gruber_growth_variability_hlt_plan_premiums_ib_v2.pdf

            I am also not trying to pretend that the ACA is perfect or that any solutions to rising healthcare costs are easy, but I wonder WHAT ARE YOUR SOLUTIONS, other than trying to pretend that there were no problems with healthcare prior to the ACA and the ever popular “let all the immigrants and poor people die in the streets”?

            Of course, I have no illusions to your answering anything honestly or thoughtfully, that’s just not in your wheelhouse. You much prefer to complain and criticize everything in hopes that will make you seem superior by comparison. Hate to tell ya, it ain’t workin’.

          • LFNewbie

            Even the former speechwriters of ObamaCare make fun of the “If you like your doctor, you can’t keep your doctor” lie on Charlie Rose.

          • annomouse

            Yes, he shouldn’t have said that , but how many people actually “lost” their healthcare plan?
            In reality, only about 2.6 million people were affected by that and they didn’t really “lose” but rather had to “change” health care plans (mostly for a better, more comprehensive plan, horrors!). Over the last 30 years I’ve had to change my employer based healthcare plan about 10 times and never “lost” my doctors. Big deal.

            Talk about making a mountain-out-of-a-molehill, why don’t you people ever mention the 3 million young adults who gained healthcare by being able to stay on their parents plan until age 26?

            I’ll tell you why, because you’re a bunch of partisan cranks who would rather cut-off-your-noses than try and make this a better country for everyone.

          • LFNewbie

            Not sure where you got the 2.6mil from? Probably from the same white house guys who
            wrote the “if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor” and “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan” lie. Nevertheless, I guess I’m one of those unfortunate individuals along
            with the other 20000 ppl in the rest of the company. My deductible went up 20 times from $300 to $6000. I don’t know how else to say it other than I lost my insurance. If the word “lost” offends you, you could replace it with “changed to a piece of crap”.

            Exactly. It was not a big deal. You just proved how great your insurance was without Obamacare over the last 30 yrs.

            I don’t follow your logic here. Are you saying that it’s okay to rob the 2.6mil older adults to subsidize the 3mil younger adults?

            Whoa… It gets even better. Now, I’m unpatriotic because I don’t like getting robbed by Obamacare. Forgive me for wanting to help whom I want to help (for e.g. myself, my parents, or someone that deserve my help) and not subsidizing some random stranger’s adult kid.

          • annomouse

            Obamacare HASN’T affected my employer based insurance one iota and from the unintelligible gibberish you wrote I doubt yours was either.
            You’re one those cranks who makes up stories to smear Obamacare but you really have no idea what your talking about.
            If in reality, if you wanted a smaller deductible you should have chosen a different plan because that’s how the ACA really works and by the way, your in luck, open enrollment began today. So do your research and compare plans or you could just continue complaining and making stuff up, the choice is yours, lol.

          • LFNewbie

            Are you trying to play dumb? Let me spell it out for you, for the *SAME* premium, my deductible has jumped from $300 to $6000 with less coverage because of Obamacare. Well, of course I made that one up too. Just like every single time someone presents you with facts or ideas that disagree with your ideology it must be a lie. So now I’m a liar besides being an unpatriotic, whinny crank according to you. What’s next?

            You are obviously not interested in having a civil two sided conversation other than name calling. Thank you for the discussion (or a lack thereof) annomouse. Good luck and God bless you! Peace!

          • annomouse

            First off, your anecdotal story does not equal a fact. I would need much more information to know if you’re comparing apples to apples or as I suspect, apples to elephants.

            Secondly, your truthfulness is already suspect because you’re using two “handles” (LFOldTimer).

            And thirdly, what don’t you understand about picking another plan?

          • LFOldTimer

            I have no idea who LFNewbie is. We are two separate and distinct individuals.

            But like all the other arguments you’ve lost – when you’re behind the eight ball you concoct these cockamamie diversions that make you look ever sillier.

            But keep posting. Your comedic value is priceless! .

          • LFOldTimer

            Oh, and another reason Obamacare is on life support…….

            Someone mandated to purchase health insurance can pay a small penalty – and opt out of the insurance mandate until they get a serious illness – then suddenly opt in. This means that there is a disproportional # of SICK people who accept the insurance. If you know anything about insurance – the actuaries SPREAD THE RISK – so the HEALTHY ones (who don’t require regular treatment) must subsidize the SICK ones (who need constant medical attention). But if the healthy ones opt out and pay the small penalty – there is no one to spread the risk to! This raises the premiums and deductibles on EVERYONE since the costs are passed on to all policy holders. Duh? Yet if the healthy ones get sick – they too can opt in at any time and apply their penalties to the premiums! ha.

            So as an analogy – ObamaCare allows people to buy homeowner’s insurance AFTER their home catches fire and burns down to cover the replacement costs!!! ha.

            How could such a ridiculous business model work in the real world?

            Read this 3x’s a day for a week. Maybe some will stick.

          • annomouse

            Again you’re WRONG!

            Haven’t you EVER heard of “enrollment periods”? Nope, too busy pontificating, not enough time spent listening, reading and learning.

            Open Enrollment Period
            The yearly period when people can enroll in a health insurance plan. 2016 Open Enrollment ended January 31, 2016. Open Enrollment for 2017 runs from November 1, 2016 to January 31, 2017.

            Outside the Open Enrollment Period, you generally can enroll in a health insurance plan only if you qualify for a Special Enrollment Period. You’re eligible if you have certain life events, like getting married, having a baby, or losing other health coverage.

            Job-based plans may have different Open Enrollment Periods. Check with your employer.
            You can apply and enroll in Medicaid or the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) any time of year.

            Special Enrollment Period (SEP)
            A time outside the yearly Open Enrollment Period when you can sign up for health insurance. You qualify for a Special Enrollment Period if you’ve had certain life events, including losing health coverage, moving, getting married, having a baby, or adopting a child.

            If you qualify for an SEP, you usually have up to 60 days following the event to enroll in a plan. If you miss that window, you have to wait until the next Open Enrollment Period to apply.

            You can enroll in Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Plan (CHIP) any time of year, whether you qualify for a Special Enrollment Period or not.

            Job-based plans must provide a special enrollment period of at least 30 days.

          • annomouse

            Riiiiiggghht, some other “stranger” who just happens to share your opinions, writing style and “insults” (not to mention the fluky similarity of your “handles”).
            LOL, too, too funny.

          • LFNewbie

            Hi LFOldTimer. Sorry to drag you back into this. This has really turned into a comedic routine – the only saving grace. I almost feel bad for anonmouse. I’m just going to bail. I got to get back to the general election. Farh got my vote. In light of the recent events, I’m just not
            sure if Basile can stay independent. Wagoner is starting to look good…

          • LFNewbie

            Do you seriously don’t understand that lower deductible means higher premium? Let me repeat it once again: For the same PREMIUM my DEDUCTIBLE skyrocketed. Swap the words in caps and read it 3 times slowly.

            The low deductible plans are so outrageously expensive and make no sense that my employer is not even sponsoring them! Maybe you are simply lucky and unaffected by Obamacare. I was lucky up until this point. I didn’t quite get what ppl were yapping about until it hit home hard, really hard. Even if you don’t believe me, some of the Dem leaders and Bill Clinton are calling Obamacare a *crazy system* where millions more ppl have health care but those unable to qualify for subsidies are getting *killed*. Or you think they are lying too? Don’t you have any friends or neighbors middle class America you can trust and ask around? Me and the rest of the 20000 employees can’t be the only ppl being affected. Or are you surrounded by illegal immigrants and uninsured ppl whom now I’m forced to subsidize thanks to Obamacare. What is the justice in that?

            I tried to give you the benefit of doubt, but you just can’t response without name calling, false accusation and now some crazy conspiracy theory. Are you that paranoid and insecure? Who cares what my handle is, just stay on the subject. If it helps you to stay focus, just pretend that I’m LFOldTimer. I’m very flattered though that you think that I’m LFOldTimer. I was inspired by his informed and well-balanced OP. I apologize that I have carelessly picked a handle that might have inadvertently tainted his reputation. I’m quite sure he has long bailed this pointless thread and won’t see my apology. I should take the high road and do the same.

            Good Luck and God Bless You, Peace.

          • annomouse

            So, you have employer based healthcare and aren’t even using the Covered California exchanges.
            You are not on Obamacare.
            I love it how you Obamacare haters all bemoan how much Obamacare has hurt you when in reality it’s the same issue that the country (and the world) has been dealing with for decades … the rising cost of healthcare. Healthcare costs were rising FASTER before the ACA.
            The reason Americans are getting kicked in the head worse than everyone else in the civilized world is because we allow FOR PROFIT insurers to deliver our basic healthcare.
            We’d be better off with a Medicare for all style program, but we’ve got reactionaries like yourself standing in the way, defending healthcare CEO’s and their shareholders the right to make millions and billions of dollars off of us.

            Don’t like the cost of your healthcare … go yell at the mirror!

          • LFNewbie

            You do agree that insurance companies are for-profit and they aren’t going to turn into charities any time soon. In order to maintain the same profit margin, someone
            has to foot the bill to pay for the previously uninsured and uninsurable. They were uninsurable for a reason (Think hard). Middle class Americans are getting crushed footing the bill. It’s unfair and unsustainable in the DEM leaders previous Obamacare proponents’ own words. I’m quite sure you’d think otherwise if you and your social circle are among the ill and uninsured benefiting on me and my family’s expense.

          • annomouse

            You were getting “crushed” BEFORE Obamacare.

            The cost of health insurance was going up by around 10% a year, prior to the ACA. Furthermore, are you suggesting that we as a country just let sick and poor americans go with out health care?

            The basic, basic premise of insurance is “spread the risk”, by buying insurance when you’re young and healthy you help guarantee that health insurance will be there when your older and sicker and reasonably affordable.
            We’ve already taken out of the for profit insurance system the oldest and sickest americans and given them MediCare. If we could add a public option to the ACA and put younger healthier people into MediCare it would bolster MediCare’s longterm outlook and bring out-of-pocket costs down for everyone.

            Yes, Dems like me think we can find reasonable solutions to problems like health care. Solutions that help ALL AMERICANS. Right-wingers like you only can see as far as the end-of-your-noses and can’t stand the thought of anybody else getting a nickel that you didn’t get and to that end you’ll destroy any hope we have of containing health care costs and guaranteeing that health insurance is available when we do get old and sick.

          • LFNewbie

            Why don’t you answer my questions first: –

            Are you suggesting we rob middle class Americans to pay for the sick the poor and the illegal immigrants?

            Why do you think healthcare cost are rising while benefit to expense ratios are decreasing? HINT: last 2 words of previous question

            Do you insist on me, your beloved candidate and her husband and many of the Dem leaders are all liars when we say that our deductible skyrocketed with less coverage? In your own words, we are all Right-wingers “who can’t stand the thought of anybody else getting a NICKEL that we didn’t get”. I don’t know how many times I’m going to say this – my deductible jumped 20x to $6000. How is that anywhere close to a NICKEL? Can you understand simple math?

            And exactly how was I getting crushed before Obamacare? Let me repeat for the n-th time, my deductible was $300 before the insurance companies got squeezed – the last quarter of 2015 when all insurance companies’ profit margin plunged. Insurance companies are pro-profit and aren’t going to turn into charities anytime soon. In order to maintain the same level of profit margin someone has to foot the bill, that left me along with the rest of middle America taking the hit. What part do you not understand?

            You keep dodging the questions and selectively omit critical facts that don’t fit your narrative and pretend that you care about the sick, the poor and the rest of the country meanwhile totally disregard that most Americans are hanging on by a thread. Ppl like you are double standard hypocrites with a twisted sense of morals. Please don’t call yourself a Dem. Dems like Bill Clinton despite being a serial rapist and a career criminal actually have some common sense. You are just a hard core socialist pretending to be a Dem.

          • annomouse

            I think I did answer your question, now why don’t you answer mine:

            Why did you LIE about being on Obamacare?

            You work for a company that employs 20,000 people (“Me and the rest of the 20000 employees”) your BEEF is with your BOSS.
            If your company is limiting your choices and not contributing to your healthcare costs then you’re working for a greedy, lousy cheapskate.
            Stop trying to pretend that you’re on Obamacare so you can smear it with phony stories.

          • LFNewbie

            Is this another one of your cheap tactics when you are losing an argument. And why does it matter whether my insurance is employer-based or not!? But just to play along and expose how disingenuous you are: Where exactly did I say I’m *ON* Obamacare!?! Can you quote it please. You can’t, can you!?

            On the contrary, I said it on multiple occasions and right from the beginning, I quote:

            “…. I’m one of those unfortunate individuals along with the other 20000 ppl in the rest of the company….”

            And then you followed up with…

            “Obamacare HASN’T affected my employer based insurance…”

            How can you pretend that you don’t know that I’m referring to my employer-based insurance. Are you going to delete your reply now?

            More importantly, this little diversion of yours is completely missing the point. Employer based or not is irrelevant – Obamacare is driving healthcare cost up for everybody. I don’t know how many times I have to explain this: Obamacare made (or forced to be precise) healthcare insurance available to the reviously uninsurable. In order for insurance companies to maintain the same profit margin, someone has to foot the bill to offset the loss on these money losing uninsurable. That someone happens to be middle American – whether it’s a single individual or a group of ppl under the same umbrella of a single employee is besides the point. Insurance companies are no charities (albeit
            low profit margin), they pass the bill to my employer and my employer pass the
            bill onto me. As a matter of fact, my employer has already increased their contribution (which is just another form of pay-cut to me) in order to keep my premium the same. You just want everybody else but you to pick up the tap since you are not affected or even possibly benefiting from Obamacare.

            This little article of yours is hilarious. It can’t defend Obamacare and all the disasters it creates so it has to find another way to spew hate and shift blame
            – big companies with soaring stock price (not to be confused with profit) are
            easy targets. What’s more shocking is despite repeatedly stating that Obamacare did nothing but driving up healthcare cost, it tried to somehow tie Obamacare and take credit to all the hard work that insurance companies did to dig themselves out of the Obamacare hole. How could something increase cost and boost profit at the same time? Does it make any logical sense to you? Anyone with half a brain would wonder if Obamacare is so great and helped the insurance companies boost their earnings and stock price why would insurance companies run for hill and can’t exit Obamacare fast enough.

            And since when does stock price = profitability!? The stock price of Tesla has jumped 1300% in the last 2 years despite never turning a profit. Companies are buying back stock to boost their stock price. It’s called financial engineering. They can’t make money selling insurance, so they have to do these little gimmicks to answer to their shareholders. The earnings of the big
            insurers all plunge unanimously at the last qtr of 2015 with Aetna taking the
            biggest hit dropping a whopping 70%. They are just starting to recover exiting Obamacare. Go take look at their 10K for the last 5 qtrs. You will also notice the profit margins of insurance companies are actually quite low in the single digit with HUM barely getting by at ~2%.

            And while we are on the subject of the stock market (which you would like to divert attention to and avoid the real issue), insurance companies as a group actually underperformed the boarder market since the ACA funding approval back then in Jun 2012. Even with the gov freebie (taxpayer’s money), the uncertainty of the over-looming effects of Obamacare kept the sector suppressed for the longest time until rumors of mergers among the big 5 submerged in 2015, the whole sector got a boost. In case you haven’t noticed, despite stagnant growth the stock market has been “soaring” since the bubble burst in 09. Why the disconnect between Wall Street and Main Street? Thanks to the Fed’s ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) which helped nothing but the stock market and the Obama administration’s rules and regulation to stifle growth?! The radical left propaganda machine loves to talk about things and make a point without context. They are betting on the general public won’t verify their data or simply lack the knowledge or resources to do so. Please open your eyes and do your own research take everything with a grain of salt.

            I hope you finally acknowledge that Obamacare is a disaster. The overwhelming amount of evidences not just me and my anecdotal story, but the DEM leader, the original proponents of ACA, Bill Clinton as well as this hideous article you cited all trying to tell you what a CRAZY system Obamacare has created. Whether you like it or not, the Obamacare death
            spiral has begun. Your effort to defend it is futile.

          • annomouse

            You continue to persist in this fantasy that our healthcare system was just humming along prior to Obamacare, it’s just not true. I know you can’t stand facts, but health care costs were RISING FASTER PRIOR TO THE ACA.

            “In 2008, the average employer-sponsored family plan cost a total of $12,680, with employees footing $3,354 of the bill, according to Kaiser data. By 2016, the cost of the average employer family plan was up to $18,142 for the year, with workers picking up $5,277 of the tab.

            These increased costs for employers and employees alike may seem steep—up around 50% over the past eight years—but they could have risen far higher had the Affordable Care Act never passed. The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006).”

            http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/

            Unlike you at least I’m honest, I am not pretending that the ACA is perfect. It needs work, like all major legislation, unfortunately the Republican party doesn’t care about governing or accomplishing anything on behalf of the american people and to that end refuse to make any improvements to the ACA. One way to control costs would be to open up Medicare to everyone (also known as the public option) and the other would be to negotiate with the drug companies.

            “So why doesn’t Medicare have the ability to control its drug costs? The short answer is politics.

            … from its creation and through Bill Clinton’s presidency, Medicare lacked a prescription-drug benefit. It was not until 2003, under President George W. Bush, that Congress added the Part D benefit, through which Medicare pays for seniors’ prescription drugs. The enactment followed a controversial House roll call vote, which Republicans held open for several hours as party leadership maneuvered to secure enough votes for passage. One bargaining chip to attract market-oriented Republican votes was the so-called “noninterference clause”—a provision drug manufacturers had a major role in writing and getting through Congress—which banned negotiations between Medicare and pharmaceutical companies on drug prices and prevented the government from developing its own formulary or pricing structure. Instead of CMS negotiating on Part D plans’ behalf, prescription drug plans compete for enrollees and negotiate directly with manufacturers.”

            http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/09/19/the-politics-of-medicare-and-drug-price-negotiation/

            Of course it’s ALWAYS easier to sit back and kvetch than it is to come up with solutions, your party has none (we’re still waiting for their “plan”). Donald Trump has none. If Obama had done nothing our healthcare costs would be even higher today and you’d still be blaming him.
            I contend that you are nothing more than a partisan crank, just itching to blame the “illegals” for everything that’s wrong with the country. Well, Donald Trump’s your man, he’s a perfect fit … a lying, bigoted, selfish, angry, know-nothing. Good luck with that, lol.

          • LFNewbie

            Priceless! You are proving me right with references.

            “The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006).”

            According to the Kaiser study the rate of increase is on a steady decline over the past 15yrs (63%, 31%, 20%). Then why has my rates skyrocketed for 2017? Because I’m picking up someone else’s tap. It just shows how unfair and immoral Obamacare is.

          • annomouse

            Sorry perpetual crank, you’re wrong again.

            13.2 percent average rate increase for 2017

            “On July 19, Covered California announced that the statewide average rate increase for 2017 would be 13.2 percent. They noted that when that rate increase is averaged with the rate hikes for 2015 and 2016, the three-year average is 7 percent per year, which is lower than the average annual increase in the pre-ACA years.”

            Source: https://www.healthinsurance.org/california-state-health-insurance-exchange/

          • LFNewbie

            It’s mind blowing that you continue to prove me right using your own references.

            “On July 19, Covered California announced that the statewide average
            rate increase for 2017 would be 13.2 percent. They noted that when that
            rate increase is averaged with the rate hikes for 2015 and 2016, the
            three-year average is 7 percent per year, which is lower than the
            average annual increase in the pre-ACA years.”

            I know that math is not your strong suit. Let me combine your last 2 references and break down the calculations to the simplest terms for you: According to Kaiser and CCA, rates have been on a steady decline from 2001 to 2016 for the past 15yrs (from 12% to 4% per yr). But then things took a turn for the worse (thx to Obamacare) from 2016 to 2017 and shot back up and beyond to 13%.

            Avg per yr between 2001 to 2006: 63%/5=12%
            Avg per yr between 2006 to 2011: 31%/5=6%
            Avg per yr between 2011 to 2016: 20%/5=4%

            And just in case you didn’t know how they come up with the average for the past 3 years:

            Avg per yr between 2014 to 2017: (4%+4%+13%)/3 = 7%

            The most ironic thing is you used references from healthinsurance.org which is a state-funded organization with a history of cherry-picking and falsifying data just to protect Obama’s legacy. They usually provide no or very vague references hoping the public won’t verify their data or lack simple math skill to interpret the data. Sadly, it seems to be working.

          • annomouse

            Well, it looks like you may get your wish and Obamacare will be ended.
            Yes, we’ll go back to pre-ACA days where health care premiums and deductables never went up and no one ever went bankrupt due to medical bills and the emergency rooms were only used for emergencies.

            Back to the future …
            Sept. 16, 2009
            “Today, the average cost of a family health insurance offered by an employer is $13,375. That’s up 131% over the last decade—a period in which inflation rose only 28%. And one estimate says that if costs continue on their current trajectory, premiums will go up another 166% in the decade ahead. ”

            (and FYI that would have been 2009-2019:166%/10=16.6%)

            http://business.time.com/2009/09/16/health-insurance-premiums-up-131-in-last-ten-years/

            LOL, good luck with Paul Ryan’s health care “plan”.

          • LFNewbie

            My condolences. You can always move back to Mexico or Venezuela.

          • annomouse

            “You can always move back to Mexico or Venezuela.”

            So, because I disagree with you I must be from Mexico or Venezuela, well let the open racism and bigotry begin.

          • LFNewbie

            So what if you are from Mexico or Venezuela? Why are you offended by it? Are you racist?

            As usual you are easily confused and cannot tell the simple distinction between Mexican (the people) and Mexico (the country).

          • annomouse

            Why did you even bring up Mexico or Venezuela? Had I given you ANY indication that I was from a foreign country?

            No, I hadn’t.

            You brought up Mexico and Venezuela in order to insult or offend me.
            And now you’re going to pretend that it wasn’t an insult at all and that I’m really the racist for being offended. Except that isn’t going to fly, you’ve EXPOSED YOURSELF FOR THE BIGOTED RACIST YOU ARE. I know it and you know it and all the semantics in the world can’t help you wriggle away from your own deplorable behavior.

            You disgust me.

          • LFNewbie

            LOL! Like a good old soldier of the radical left propaganda machine, you couldn’t resist the opportunity of using the race card when you see the word Mexico. Except this time, your shameful character assassination plan back fires! How does it feel?

            You are totally right. I have no clue where you are from. But I know enough about you to know that you are not from any of the socialist countries. No one sane in their right mind with dignity whom have actually experienced the immorality of socialism would ever vouch for Obamacare which is nothing more than a massive income redistribution scheme.

            My suggestion to you remains the same – MOVE (without the BACK since it doesn’t make any logical sense) to Mexico, Venezuela or any socialist country of your choice. I mean it not to insult you. With a clean sweep victory of the GOP, there’s no place for haters and freeloaders like you.

            Open your eyes and look at the exit polls (your impeccable liberal source: The New York Times) – ppl of all races and economic status have united. I know you have trouble analyzing raw data. Let me break it down for you. Minorities votes are all up for Trump – Blacks:+7%, Hispanics:+8%, Asians:+11%. Poor ppl who make <$30k voted for Trump SURGED by a whopping 16% – the greatest shift of any demographics movement. These are the POOREST of the poor and they voted for a BILLIONAIRE. You know why? Because ppl have dignity. They know that they can’t afford free stuff. Not only is income redistribution immoral, but all these gov handouts are going to back fire. Try naming a rich socialist country. You can’t, can you?

            Your evil divisive plan to pit the poor against the rich, the minorities against the whites; silence ppl who speak the truth with character assassination and physical violence (unilaterally all from left) ain’t working anymore. Amen!

          • annomouse

            Ha ha ha, you are so angry at being exposed for the bigoted, racist creep that you are that you’re sputtering gibberish.
            First off fool, Mexico is not a “socialist” country, it has a mixed economy like most countries, including ours.
            So that “Mexico or Venezuela” comment makes no sense in your whole “move to a socialist country” DODGE, but it makes a whole lot of sense as “your a freeloading illegal hispanic” insult, which is what you meant it as.
            So, you’ve accused me of being a foreigner, a freeloader and a hater. You got all that based on my defense of the ACA. Yep, how evil to want to control costs and increase the access and quality of healthcare for all americans. I’ve been very frank about the ACA, it’s not perfect, it could be better, it needs adjustments, but we needed to do something about healthcare. I wouldn’t be surprised if the republicans tweek it a little bit, call it Trumpcare and then all you angry, know-nothings will be ecstatic.

            I know (I just don’t assume) you’re not too bright based on the “thoughts” that you’ve expressed here, like this one:

            “No one sane in their right mind with dignity whom have actually experienced the immorality of socialism would ever vouch for Obamacare which is nothing more than a massive income redistribution scheme.”

            ALL first world countries have some form of socialized medicine and NONE of them would get rid of it. Have you ever wondered why, if socialized medicine is so horrible, countries like Canada, Germany, France and England haven’t voted to get rid of it? Just like Americans freak-out if you start talking about getting rid of MediCare which is socialized medicine ( horrors, does granny know?).
            And FYI some of the most socialist countries in the world: Belgium, New Zealand, Ireland, Norway, Canada … hardly a list of h*ll holes.

            Furthermore, bigoted, racist creep just because a lot of uninformed idiots voted for Trump doesn’t mean that I’m wrong.
            Time will tell, but they’ve already scrubbed the Trump campaign website of his ugliest “promises” and he’s looking to Wall Street for his Treasury Secretary. His supporters better get ready to take it in the neck.

            As for me, I’ll be getting some big tax cuts, thanks chumps!

            And lastly, I don’t know for sure where someone like you gets such ugly ideas and opinions but I’d lay a wager that you spend your days and/or nights listening to hate radio and/or watching Fox news spew its lies.
            My sincere advice: change the channel.

          • LFNewbie

            Here we go again… The left propaganda machine chanting bigoted, racist creep, yada, yada, ya…. It’s getting really old. Don’t you have something new to say? Seriously, why are you guys so fragile and easily offended? And, what’s up with all the violence? Did you go to the protest too? It’s pretty scary stuff – ppl burning Trump signs and yelling death and sacrifices. Or is it all an act – you got paid to go this time around too – the same crowd who got paid to instigate violence at the Trump rallies or bomb the GOP office. Oh man, you ppl really have no soul you will do anything to make a few quick bucks. You know ppl can die, don’t you value human life at all? Just because we disagree with you, doesn’t mean we deserve to die. And you are calling us bigots? C’mon even you can figure out the hypocrisy in that. I’m so sorry all that cheating, violence and the 2 billion dollar campaign budget didn’t get you very far. I get that you are very frustrated, but violence isn’t going to solve anything. Try anger management instead. Don’t be cheap with all that dirty money you collected you can afford a little TLC for yourself. It might even save your soul. I won’t hold my breath though.

            You sure are honest about how much you love Obamacare and the freeloading part. Robbing me to pay for you doesn’t seem to bother you a bit. Then brag about the big tax cut from your opposition – everything that’s against your ideology – that’s low even for you. That’s why you are the poster child of double standard hypocrite with no morals.

            Nice try trying to steal Republican’s new healthcare plan! Boyd, why am I not surprised? You do have a long history of stealing other ppl’s stuff – first my healthcare and then my POOR writing style (thx though for making the greatest irony of the century on Wiki ;)) and now the Republican’s healthcare reform plan. You really have no shame.

            Breaking news! ALL countries have some form of healthcare safety net Medicaid/Medicare alike system including countries like Singapore or Hong Kong – the most capitalistic countries of the world. Having a healthcare system like that doesn’t automatically make it a socialist country. Are you going to add Singapore or HK to your list of socialist countries too? Or the entire world for that matter. And so what if you have a Medicaid-like system? Why would you vote it out? Just because I install my own home-based security system or even hire my own body guard, doesn’t mean I’d vote out the local police. This is even more ridiculous then your Stock Price = Profitability claim. Are you for real? Do you even have any clue what Canada’s demographics is like and how much Canadians spend on healthcare per capita and in terms of GDP and what is the quality of their healthcare? You have internet right? Might as well use it. I really don’t have time to keep explaining basic concepts and common sense general knowledge to you every single time. I’m going to have to start charging you soon. Just kidding 😉

            I didn’t know ppl still watch TV. I guess you must be much older than me. Is that why you have such difficulties processing information? I’d suggest getting a new pair of reading glasses (make it 2 – my grandma is always looking for hers, with your big tax cut you can afford some spares). Last I heard CNN (Clinton News Network) viewership has plunged because the public doesn’t trust them anymore. Hope that’s not what you watch, they might go out of business soon with the Clintons out of office (Oops, I meant business {wink, wink} you know that Organized Crime Foundation) or even going to jail. I would definitely recommend FOX over any of the other main stream media. Give truth a try for a change, you might like it. Good Luck moving to your new country. I got to run to the GOP celebration party. Yay! 😀

          • annomouse

            Wow, lots of unhinged ranting. Are you drunk? Sure sounds like it.
            I guess I really hit a nerve.
            Must really suck to have exposed yourself as a bigoted racist.

            You know what they say … if the shoe fits, wear it.

          • annomouse

            Oh, and I forgot to ask, who’s Boyd?

            “Boyd, why am I not surprised?”

            Dude, you need to say away from the hard stuff, lol.

          • annomouse

            I’m going to address your comment from down below here because of the way this website organizes it’s comments.

            The reason I thought you were saying you were on Obamacare is the flow of our comments and YOUR POOR WRITING style. I mean really, what part of “unintelligible gibberish ” didn’t you understand?
            You wrote:

            “Not sure where you got the 2.6mil from? Probably from the same white house guys who
            wrote the “if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor” and “If you like your plan, you can keep your plan” lie. Nevertheless, I guess I’m one of those unfortunate individuals along
            with the other 20000 ppl in the rest of the company. My deductible went up 20 times from $300 to $6000. I don’t know how else to say it other than I lost my insurance. If the word “lost” offends you, you could replace it with “changed to a piece of crap”.”

            Those 2.6 million people I was referring to are individuals who did not have employer based insurance and were, prior the ACA buying their health insurance on the open market. When you said that YOU were one of those “unfortunate individuals” that is what I assumed you were meaning.

            The fact that you meant your entire company makes NO SENSE at all IN CONTEXT and the way it was written is extremely disjointed not to mention grammatically incoherent.

            So, sorry I am not a mind-reader. I can only try and understand your thoughts by reading what you’ve written and sometimes that ain’t easy.

          • LFNewbie

            I’m so sorry you are having such a difficult time processing
            information. My advice is to read everything a minimum of 3 times (5 would be
            better) including your own post and *ESPECIALLY* the references.

          • annomouse

            I’m so sorry you’re such a poor writer. My advice is to re-read everything you write 3 times (5 would be better) before you post it.

          • LFNewbie

            Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. Thank you for imitating my poor WRITING style! LOL!

          • annomouse

            Wow, that really excited you, how pathetic.

          • LFNewbie

            C’mon, you got to admit that’s a really good one. You couldn’t have made a better irony. It’s priceless. LMAO!

          • annomouse

            You’re mistaken when you claim that : “Americans who are FORCED BY LAW to purchase health care insurance to pay higher premiums and deductibles to subsidize the medical care given to illegal foreigners living in California”

            Obamacare, aka the Affordable Care Act explicitly excludes illegal aliens from getting insurance or subsidies. California tax payers do subsidize illegal alien’s (under the age of 18) health care, but then again that’s the humane and fair thing to do.

          • annomouse

            And oops!:

            “Who isn’t Eligible for the Marketplace?
            The following groups aren’t eligible to use the marketplace, get cost assistance, or use Medicaid or CHIP:

            Undocumented immigrants
            Those who are currently incarcerated.”

            http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-immigrants/

          • LFOldTimer

            Where did you get that website? From the DNC? ha.

            Go to the Covered California website and read real FACTS.

            Illegals are eligible for Med-Cal.

            Who do you think pays for illegals who go to the ER?

            Santa Claus?

            Break out of your denial.

          • annomouse

            1) I PROVIDED the website link, you really DO have comprehension issues (maybe there’s a pill for that).

            2) The FACTS Jack ,(and do READ the entire thing):

            Eligibility and Immigration

            Most Immigrants Are Required to Have Health Coverage

            Under the Affordable Care Act, most individuals who are U.S. citizens, U.S. nationals or lawfully present immigrants are required to have health coverage. There is a tax penalty — known as the “shared responsibility payment” — for those who do not have health coverage and do not qualify for an exemption.

            Lawfully present individuals in the United States generally include:

            U.S. citizens and U.S. nationals.
            Lawful permanent residents or (“green card holders”).
            Lawful temporary residents.
            Persons fleeing persecution, including refugees and asylmees.
            Other humanitarian immigrants, including those granted temporary protected status.
            Non-immigrant Status holders (including worker visas and student visas).
            See http://www.healthcare.gov/immigrants/immigration-status for more information and for a full list of the groups that are considered lawfully present.

            Individuals who are not lawfully present are exempt from the requirement to have health insurance. They must apply for an exemption directly with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) on their federal income tax return.

            Immigrants Can Apply for Health Care Coverage Through Covered California

            Both lawfully present and not lawfully present individuals can apply through Covered California to see if they are eligible for health plan options through Covered California or Medi-Cal. Immigrants who are not lawfully present are not eligible to purchase a health plan through Covered California; however, they may be eligible for coverage through Medi-Cal.

            For lawful permanent residents who are seeking health insurance coverage through Covered California or Medi-Cal, there is no “waiting period” or “five-year bar.”

            Immigrants who are not lawfully present can apply through Covered California to see if they are eligible for health plan options through Medi-Cal, although the benefits may be limited. Immigrants who are not lawfully present can also buy private health insurance coverage on their own outside of Covered California. Additionally, some counties offer other health care options for which immigrants who are not lawfully present might qualify.

            Individuals who are under Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) are not considered lawfully present. They are not eligible to purchase a Covered California health plan or receive financial assistance. However, they are not required to pay a tax penalty if they lack health insurance. These individuals may also be eligible for Medi-Cal and can apply for Medi-Cal through Covered California or at a county Medi-Cal office.

            http://www.coveredca.com/individuals-and-families/getting-covered/immigrants/

            3) Furthermore the entire PREMISE of the Affordable Care Act was to make everyone carry health insurance so folks wouldn’t be reliant on emergency rooms.

          • LFOldTimer

            Read some facts:

            “According to “PolitiCal,” SB 4 — by Sen. Ricardo Lara (D-Bell Gardens) — will implement $40 million allocated in the fiscal year 2015-2016 state budget
            to provide Medi-Cal coverage to undocumented children 18 years old and
            younger. Medi-Cal is California’s Medicaid program (Mason, “PolitiCal,” Los Angeles Times, 10/9).

            Under the law, the state in May 2016 will begin extending Medi-Cal coverage to about 170,000 undocumented immigrant children under age 19. The expansion is
            projected to cost $40 million in the next fiscal year and about $132 million annually following implementation.”

            http://californiahealthline.org/morning-breakout/new-law-will-expand-medical-to-170k-undocumented-children/

            The bill was approved about 6 months ago. Those illegally in the country under 19 years of age who live in California have access to free healthcare under Medi-Cal.

            If you have a kid under 19 take him/her to Mexico and try to get free health care. ha.

            Another magnet for illegals to come to California.

            Free healthcare for illegals while Americans are FORCED to buy healthcare insurance and subsidize the care for those who shouldn’t even be here through higher premiums and deductibles!

            Apparently you have no problem with that! ha.

    • annomouse

      You were in such a hurry to pontificate on the horrors of “Obamacare” that once again YOU FAILED TO READ the article or maybe you just lack any ability to comprehend what you’ve read.

      “But teledentistry won’t fill a cavity today or in 10 years on.”

      Except in the article it says it does:

      “Under Glassman’s model, specially credentialed hygienists can fill most cavities on site with a temporary filling expected to last for the life of the baby tooth. This method doesn’t require a drill or needles. Other on-site procedures include cleaning, fluoride application and sealants if necessary.”

      • LFOldTimer

        The key word that you missed is “temporary”. Over a third of baby teeth fall out by age 8. Eventually the child has to see a dentist. And would you want a hygienist doing orthodontic work or treating an overbite or an impacted tooth or gum disease on your child?

        As usual, you overlooked my primary point. More and more dentists are dumping Denti-Cal while our impoverished population grows by leaps and bounds in California. Result? Longer wait times. Those with lower medical qualifications treat disease and illness. Quality of care suffers. Welcome to the 3rd world.

        Read that 3x a day for 1 week. If you still don’t get it I can’t help you.

        • annomouse

          Hey genius, this is a story about Healthy Smiles for Kids, a program that operates in schools. Kids have baby teeth.
          Again, you were WRONG and are now pretending that you had a clue. LOL, you are so transparent, a perpetual crank with no ideas, but plenty of criticisms. Get a life.

          • LFOldTimer

            I bet if you had a tail you’d bite it. ha.

          • annomouse

            That’s all you’ve got? Why don’t you just admit that you didn’t READ the article or didn’t UNDERSTAND it.