• annomouse

    “It’s not so much about the kids.”

    Wrong. It is all about the kids. The ignorant comments about the mental health issues facing SAUSD kids here are shocking.
    A) Not all mental health issues are the fault of bad or negligent parenting. Sometimes people are born with mental health disabilities just like people are sometimes born with physical disabilities and they can run the same gamut, from mild to severe.
    B) Even if the mental health issues are the result of bad or neglectful parenting the school system still has to deal with these kids and their problems. Many of these kids are dealing with stresses and situations that would be difficult for most adults to cope with. We tend to think of counselors as helping older students but many young children are also in dire need of counseling and support.

    What kind of society are we that we can’t provide some basic mental health services to our most vulnerable students?

    • LFOldTimer

      It appears you’ve missed my point again.

      If a child has behavioral problems due to biological imbalances in the brain in a functional household where the child is loved and nurtured the parents would generally notice the problem and get the child the appropriate treatment.

      However, if a child has behavioral problems due to abuse or lack of proper care in a dysfunctional household the parents may ignore the symptoms for whatever reason or even think the problematic behaviors are normal – therefore, fail to get the child the appropriate treatment.

      In case #1 the child gets the attention he needs.

      In case #2 the child is neglected.

      In case #2 it is not only the child who needs treatment, it is the parents who may have contributed to the child’s behavioral deficits.

      What good is it to only treat the child when the source of the problem is the parents?

      Duh?

      I hope that helps clarify the point that you missed.

      • annomouse

        Really, again your comments are so simplistic and ignorant. It’s obvious you have no idea how complex these issues can be.
        For example:
        1) Some parents don’t have health insurance and/or can’t afford the prescriptions or therapies.
        2) Many behavioral problems are noticed in school first or they mostly create a problem for the child at school.
        3) Even if the child is getting the best care (and that’s not often in this country) there are ALWAYS issues and situations that arise and the school has got to partner with the parents to make sure the child is getting the help that they need.
        4) The schools have to deal with the child’s problems regardless of the parent’s issues. We shouldn’t abandon the child because he or she has terrible parents. Ideally the parents would want help, but often times they don’t.

        DUH!

        • LFOldTimer

          1. California has something called “Medi-Cal” for indigent residents. Prescription drugs are generally free for those on “Medi-Cal”. Counseling is available to families with “Medi-Cal”.

          2. If a child’s behavioral problems are noticed first at school – the school would notify the parents. Functional parents would then get their child the help that he or she needs. Dysfunctional parents don’t. Not complicated.

          3. So now you are agreeing with my original premise that you attacked me for. The school and the parents must work together and dysfunctional parents need to be taught parenting skills. Treating the child from a dysfunctional family without treating his or her parents is ignoring the source of the problem.

          4. Who said anything about abandoning the child? Take your words out of my mouth, please. Again, read closely: Functional parents get their children the help that they need. Dysfunctional parents don’t. If the dysfunctional parents are not taught parenting skills or given counseling, how could one expect the child’s behavior to improve?

          5…4…3…2…1…. wait for more drama.

          • annomouse

            1) Mental health services are pretty much non-existent, it’s usually a 10 minute appointment and drugs, but no therapy. Ask any parent who’s had to deal with these issues and you’ll get an earful and those are parents with full insurance benefits. Medical recipients I’m sure have it even tougher. Even making appointments for parents who are working multiple jobs and who have transportation problems can be a nightmare. You need to step out of your reality and try and understand other peoples real life obstacles.

            2) Lots of times parents are dysfunctional or are unable to provide the help their children need. That’s why the schools need counselors and school psychologists.

            3) I think you and Bee Bee’s original premise was that the parents need to deal with these problems. That’s MUCH DIFFERENT than partnering with the school system.

            4) I can only interpret YOUR words and you wrote “What good is it to only treat the child when the source of the problem is the parents?” We are talking about SCHOOLS, only children go to school. The schools have a responsibility to the child, regardless of the parents. Get it?

            That’s why schools need counselors and psychologists at ALL levels, TO HELP THE CHILDREN.

          • LFOldTimer

            1. I’ve had conversations with Medi-Cal recipients who received counseling through ObamaCare. The appointments weren’t 10 minutes and they found the treatment very helpful and effective.

            2. Dysfunctional parents (by definition) need counseling and treatment themselves. Duh?

            3. The partnership with the school system must include treatment or counseling for the dysfunctional parents for the child to improve. Duh?

            4. Apparently you have a problem with comprehension. My quote “What good is it to only treat the child when the source of the problem is the parents?” does nothing to imply that the child should be “expelled” or “punished” “left to rot” at school for emotional or mental problems, did it, drama queen? It only emphasized that treating the child without counseling the dysfunctional parents is a poor and largely ineffective protocol to improve the child’s behavioral problems. Duh?

          • annomouse

            If you think calling me a “drama queen’ covers up the gaping holes in your logic, you would be wrong.

            Please, show us where to get the money to provide the counseling for the parents of the the troubled children (on top of the money for the kids in school).

          • annomouse

            I also doubt that you know anything about mental health services. Anyone who has dealt with mental health providers knows that for the most part they are wholly inadequate. Counseling is very limited or non-existent, psychiatrists pretty much only push pills. Talk therapy isn’t usually covered.

          • LFOldTimer

            Now you’re responding to yourself?

          • BeeBee.BeeLeaves

            Exactly. So why fund the BS? And hurt more kids. No drug profits in County government. No. Enough is enough. Collussion with drug companies is bad for society.

          • LFOldTimer

            Oh, so now you’re going to divert the topic over to money rather than the failed protocol of treating dysfunctional children without treating their dysfunctional caretakers, eh?

            You’ve exhausted all your cards. I’ve heard enough.

            Again, thanks for playing.

          • annomouse

            Did you even bother to READ the article?
            You and Bee Bee are so anxious to pontificate on subjects you know nothing about that you missed the POINT of the article.
            What a couple of know-nothing blowhards.

          • BeeBee.BeeLeaves

            Stop with your uncivility. Just stop.

            Yes. I read the article and yes, once again finding the money to take care of kids with family deficits. No. We don’t need to now use kids in order to generate invoices in order to justify federal, state cash for the budgets.

            Foster care system has demonstrated how children are used for checks in other counties. Children are not inventory to be used and disposed of when checks stop.

            Help families, yes. Good money after bad to drug up kids or skirt the true issue, no.

          • annomouse

            Stop with your disjointed nonsense. Just stop.

            School counselors don’t prescribe drugs, but they can advocate for kids or be someone a kid can talk to.
            That should be something we can provide for troubled kids. Counseling is cost effective, neglect is costly.

      • annomouse

        I forgot to address this humdinger:

        “What good is it to only treat the child when the source of the problem is the parents?”

        Just what are you saying there? That hey, if the child’s parents are neglecting him/her that the school should just neglect him/her too? Expel them, punish them, let them rot, because they have bad parents so why should the school try to help them. Not. Our. Problem. Is that YOUR solution?
        What an absolutely revolting philosophy.

        Shame on you.

        • LFOldTimer

          Oh, so now you’re the spin master who takes a sentence and gives it whatever meaning you want it to have. ha.

          Trying to have a rational discussion with you is like trying to get milk from a bull moose.

          Where exactly did I say a neglected child should be expelled from or punished at school?

          A mistreated child should be removed from the household that is mistreating him or her.

          Lousy parents should be taught parenting skills. That should be part and parcel of treatment for a neglected child. Common sense. If the parents don’t change their habits – neither will the child. Duh?

          Read twice: Functional parents recognize when their child has emotional or mental problems and gets their child help.

          Read twice: Dysfunctional parents fail to recognize when their child has emotional or mental problems and/or just don’t care.

          Children of dysfunctional parents and households have the biggest problems in school.

          Trying to fix the child without fixing the parent makes little sense.

          Ok. Spin that and give us some more drama. ha. Waiting……

          .

          • annomouse

            Hey dope, we’re talking about the SCHOOL BOARD not social services. Schools deal with the CHILD.
            And excuse me for taking your words LITERALLY, I guess I should have realized that what you have written is not what you meant to say. LOL.

          • LFOldTimer

            Dope? ha. More drama queen responses. ha.

            That’s what people generally do when they won’t specifically respond to points made in an opposing argument.

            Oh, and if you believe that you LITERALLY quoted me in your previous responses get your eyes checked.

            Thanks for playing.

          • annomouse

            I think you are really missing the premise of the original article, and that’s how do we provide more mental health services IN the schools?
            If we are struggling to provide counseling services to the children IN school, just how are we going to provide counseling services to the parents?

            It all comes down to taxes, taxes, taxes. Somehow I doubt that you are willing to pony up.

          • BeeBee.BeeLeaves

            Dope? What is that?
            This discussion has become cray cray crazy.

            Familes first. My Asian neighbors have it going on. They did not buy into the family unit being allowed to be broken and their kids are doing great in education, in service to community, in life. Much respect for them and keeping their culture intact, while assimilating into American society. Broken families, broken kids. The struggle is real.

          • annomouse

            Oh, you have an anecdotel story about a perfect family, problem solved then.

          • BeeBee.BeeLeaves

            Not just one. Asian families, plural, as a whole community. Evidenced based. And many have only been here after, 1943, for Chinese, when the Magnuson Act repealed the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, created after we used them to build our railroads that allowed us to conquer the West. And then kicked them out and kept them out by law.

            Our Korean and Vietnamese families, refugees, after those conflicts. Families struggled but stayed united. It’s deeply rooted in their culture. Look at how successful that specific demographic is 3, 4 generations later. Proof that family unity is vital, matters. Our government has tried to break that up since the banksters decided that they needed two incomes being deposited in their banks from families in order to pay off their wars. Societal changes, purposefully engineered, destroyed family units. To detrimental results.

          • annomouse

            So your point is that NO ASIAN KID EVER needs counseling in school? Ipso facto: asian kids obviously all come from perfect families, eat perfectly and have no genetic weaknesses.
            What a freakin’ racist overgeneralization.

          • BeeBee.BeeLeaves

            Okay. Done. This discussion is too manic. Read into what you read however you want to read into it.

          • LFOldTimer

            You’re correct, BeeBee.

            Asians comprise about 40% of the UC enrollment when the Asians only represent about 15% of the California population and about 6% of the US population.

            So the Asian families must be doing something right for so many of their kids going on to higher education at very competitive universities.

          • annomouse

            So what?

            The Santa Ana school board has to deal with Santa Ana’s demographics. Santa Ana is a poor school district with lots of poor kids and some of them are troubled for whatever reasons. Santa Ana is not Irvine.

            Your what ifs are MEANINGLESS as the schools have to deal with what is.

          • BeeBee.BeeLeaves

            Mental health policy needs to have a good food policy to nourish children and thusly support family by supplementing when needed. It begins there, not drug them up or yap about it after the fact. The root is family, and back to my first comment on this, real food, not toxic junk that damages developing brains. Sports, arts, mandatory community service making our neighborhoods nicer after that. A sustainable system does not gloss over the problem and expect lasting results. And we already did it that way and we are worse off with more imprisonments, problems with prescription addictions, meth. All malnourished people. Unable to function. And it began with something prescribed to them as children, or malnourishment whrn they needed it the most, bar none.

          • BeeBee.BeeLeaves

            And speaking of dope. The medical practitioners who use dope for kids, practice on kids, for prescribed dope sales … ugh.

            Ritalin, if we believe the DEA, is a Schedule II drug, next to cocaine. Between 1990 and 2000, 186 kids died from it.

            Dr. Eisenberg, the so called father of ADHD, I an interview with Der Spiegel magazine even said that although some, few, may have a genetic predisposition, in USA, our system was using it as an excuse to overprescribe (profits!) this dangerous drug.

            German to English Google translation …
            A look at the United States shows that quite is still room for improvement. Out of the ten year old boy now swallows already every tenth an ADHD medication – every day. But just the scientific father of ADHD has followed the explosion of prescriptions with growing horror.

            http://m.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-83865282.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp

            http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp

            Xanax, Prozac, suicidal thoughts, suicides. Adderall. Such a long list. Side effects, lasting damage, all.

  • BeeBee.BeeLeaves

    Kids with mental health issues at that age are not eating healthy, period. Growing kids must eat real food. Not junk food after sleeping, fasting all night. Watch these tweens, teens on their way to start school. Watch what goes in their hand and into their mouth. You cannot feed your brain with junk! It turns your developing brain to junk! Adults, feed these kids foods that nourish their brain, and body. Otherwise, they are walking zombies, or ticking time bombs.

    • LFOldTimer

      I used to eat junk food all the time as a kid, BeeBee. That’s part of being a kid. I got decent grades and was never in trouble with the law. I never got kicked out of school. I played on athletic teams and went on to graduate from college. Same with most of my friends. So I don’t really buy the junk food argument. I think kids act out because they aren’t being parented properly. Poor upbringings without a moral foundation. I think that accounts for 90% of the problem. My opinion.

      • BeeBee.BeeLeaves

        Indeed, yes. Poor upbringing is definitely a huge problem. Broken family, or not much of one. But just like pot today has a much stronger THC level than the 60s, 70s ganja …. junk food today is junkier (sic) and much more toxic and laced with chemicals from the monster minds of Monsanto. Frankenfoods. After all, sick people make great need inventory and therefore invoices for Big Pharma, for government “care”, insurance.

        I believe without working hard to eat well, we have malnourished, toxic, hormonal youth and it plays a part in not being wholesome or able to think clearly. Along with parental neglect, lack of discipline, focus, yes all those, and more. Sadly.

  • David Zenger

    Isn’t this the district that reduced expulsion rates…by ending expulsions?

    • LFOldTimer

      The blind following the blind.

  • LFOldTimer

    It’s not so much about the kids. You have to teach their parents to be responsible caretakers. If the parents did their job it would reduce juvenile delinquency by 80%. Kids will always be kids. It’s the adults who are the problem.