The OC GOP’s Delicate Dance in the Age of Trump

Julie Leopo for Voice of OC

At left, a Trump supporter at a rally last summer in Costa Mesa. At right, protesters participating in an immigrant-rights march.

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It wasn’t long ago that if you were looking for harsh rhetoric and hardline policies on immigration, you need look no further than Orange County.

Republican officials in the “reddest county in America” were not at all shy about deriding our porous borders and condemning those who advocate for amnesty for people in this country illegally.

Consider Costa Mesa Councilman Allan Mansoor, who gained both notoriety and criticism in the latter half of the last decade for his extreme positions, including pushing in 2010 a city council resolution to declare Costa Mesa a “rule of law” city committed to ending illegal immigration.

Mansoor had such a high profile on the issue that he was named an honorary member of the Minuteman Project, a radical anti-illegal immigration group founded by Laguna Niguel resident Jim Gilchrist.

And while Mansoor may have been among loudest local voices, he was certainly not alone.

U.S. Rep. Ed Royce (R-Fullerton), one of the longest-serving members of the county’s congressional delegation, routinely staked out tough positions on immigration – an example being his support for a 2011 bill that would have required children born in the US to have at least one parent who is a citizen or legal permanent resident in order to receive citizenship.

Fast-forward to 2016, and the GOP standard bearer, Donald J. Trump, wins on an unabashedly “America first” platform that included some of most draconian policy prescriptions for immigration in recent memory. And the president made clear in his first week, with two executive orders that will radically change U.S. immigration policy, that he intends to live up to his campaign rhetoric.

The first order, signed last Wednesday, significantly increases the pool of people who can be deported by including not only unauthorized immigrants who have committed serious crimes, which was the threshold at the end of the Obama administration, but also those who have committed “any criminal offense” and those who have been charged but not convicted of a crime.

Then, on Friday, he issued another order calling for a temporary ban on refugees from seven Muslim-majority countries. This order sowed chaos over the weekend, with scores of immigrants being denied entry at airports while protesters filled the terminals.

And though the actions have been cheered by Trump’s supporters and received nods of approval from a number of Republicans in Congress, including Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, the reaction among Orange County Republicans – not only to the executive orders, but to the Trump presidency in general – has been muted.

Royce, who is the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, issued a statement this weekend regarding the refugee ban that was far from full-throated support, and could even be interpreted as veiled criticism.

“Pausing the intake of refugees from terror hot spots is the right call to keep America safe,” Royce said in his statement. But then he added: “I hope cases of individuals with visas traveling as this action went into effect – including some who served alongside U.S. troops – will be resolved quickly.”

The measured tone of this statement may seem at odds with the Ed Royce who, in 2008, supported a bill that would have required government services be delivered in English. But it does seem consistent with the Ed Royce who last year co-sponsored a bill with California Democrat Judy Chu to allow colleges and universities that serve large Native American, Asian American and Latino populations to receive federal funding.

A moderation of sorts can also be seen in Mansoor, who after two terms in the state Assembly and an unsuccessful run for county supervisor in 2014, was reelected to the Costa Mesa City Council in the November election.

His past emphasis on crimes committed by unauthorized immigrants was only mentioned as part of his overall public safety message, which largely focused on crime at local motels and newly released prisoners.

Acknowledging a Changing Dynamic

Republican political strategist Jon Fleischman is not surprised by such shifts. He says it’s now incumbent on local politicians to get out in their communities and make it clear where Trump’s successes reflect their beliefs, and when his rhetoric does not.

“If I were a local elected official, I would just start getting used to saying, ‘you know Donald Trump,’ and roll your eyes,” said Fleischman. “Because buckle up, we’re on the Trump train, for better or worse.”

One looking for an explanation for this more nuanced approach need look no further than Census data and the county’s voter registration rolls.

The county GOP’s once-vaunted edge in voter registration has continued to erode, falling from 44 percent in November 2008 to 37 percent in January 2017. Democrats now make up 33 percent of voters while the percentage of voters with no party preference, currently 24 percent of the electorate, continues to grow, according to the Orange County Registrar of Voters.

And while the overall population of Orange County has increased by just over 9 percent since 2000, the Latino population has increased by more than 21 percent, according to U.S. Census data.

All of this contributed to the previously unthinkable happening in Orange County in November: Hillary Clinton won the county by a 51 to 43 percent margin. It was the first time a Democratic presidential candidate won in the county since Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1936.

Republicans also saw some casualties in local races, with Democrats unseating two Asian American Republican assemblywomen from North Orange County, Ling-Ling Chang of Diamond Bar and Young Kim of Fullerton. U.S. Rep. Darrell Issa, an immigration hardliner whose district straddles the Orange and San Diego county line, scraped by with just two percent over his Democratic challenger.

However, while the changing electoral landscape shouldn’t be discounted, it also shouldn’t be overstated, said Michael Schroeder, a major Republican donor and former chair of the state GOP.

Schroeder acknowledges that while immigration is not an issue that is working for California Republicans now, the pendulum has a way of swinging back the other way.

“I think there are areas where there’s a strong open-border, sanctuary city sentiment, and candidates who don’t have those beliefs will have tough times,” Schroeder said. “But I don’t think that’s going to go on forever.”

Fleischman echoed those sentiments, saying the relative silence on the issue in this election cycle shouldn’t be mistaken for a fundamental shift in views among Republicans.

“I think a lot of what Trump wants to do on the immigration issue is embraced by the immigration by the party on the state and local party,” said Fleischman. “You don’t want to be associated with [his rhetoric], but I don’t think there’s a movement for a pathway to citizenship.”

A flap during the November election involving Latino Republican Mark Lopez, who ran unsuccessfully for the Anaheim City Council, was a window into the difficult balancing act facing the local GOP.

The party publicly rebuked Lopez when he stated at a candidate forum that he is against deportations that would separate families, noting that he sponsored his formerly unauthorized father for citizenship. Lopez added that he also opposes local authorities using resources on immigration enforcement.

Support for sanctuary cities is akin to sacrilege against the party platform and prompted local GOP Central Committee Chairman Fred Whitaker to pull funding for Lopez.

But he later reinstating it after reviewing a recording and determining that Lopez’s remarks did not amount to support for sanctuary cities. Some saw the change of heart by Whitaker, who refused to be interviewed for this article, as driven by a desire on the part of he and other party leaders to not alienate the relatively few Latinos they have in their tent.

The Counter Argument

But not everyone agrees that the winning strategy for Republicans in OC is to maintain a safe distance from Trump and his inflammatory rhetoric.

James Lacy, a Trump delegate and former Dana Point city councilman, has argued that embracing Trump could revive the California GOP and that the party can grow by targeting disenchanted middle class voters with no party preference, many who happen to be white.

Lacy says that Trump’s immigration policy will be largely focused on deporting criminals and that, as the President’s approval ratings increase, local GOPs will benefit.

“The economy is going to improve, his popularity is going to go up, his immigration policy is not going to be as scary as you and others in the media parrot, and in two years from now, the Republican Party will have a rebound,” said Lacy.

Another interesting aspect to the GOP’s relationship with the immigration issue is how it relates to their increased efforts to court Asian voters. Historically, Asian Americans have been far less likely than Latinos to consider it a key issue.

But that is changing, as Asian Americans are now the fastest-growing unauthorized population, making up 14 percent of the total, according to a 2015 study by the Migration Policy Institute.

Among those unauthorized Asian immigrants, an estimated 450,000 are from India, 300,000 from China, 200,000 from the Philippines and 180,000 from Korea, according to the Pew Center.

Support among Asian Americans for pathways to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants also appears to be growing, with 58 percent supporting a pathway in 2012 compared to 32 percent in 2008, according to a survey conducted by the National Asian American Survey.

Schroeder, however, says Asian Americans have continued to support local Republican candidates, and any support for amnesty hasn’t been reflected in a rebuke of the party at the ballot box.

“Our strong record with small businesses, the ability to support and educate your family, those are issues that we just win on,” said Schroeder “All communities have some illegal immigration…[but] from what I can tell there’s not a strong open border sentiment in the Asian community.”

How local Republicans act depends largely on whether Trump follows through with his proposals.

Trump supporters like Lacy are optimistic.

“You’re in a low point in Orange County and statewide. I think the Republican Party has no place to go but up,” said Lacy. “I believe a successful Trump presidency will be able to stop the decline in registration and maybe even help it.”

Fleischman, meanwhile, doesn’t believe that voters, whether they like Trump or not, will toss out their support for Republican candidates entirely.

“I think at the end of the day you have to understand every voter is motivated by multiple issues – and clearly immigration is not the lead issue you’re going to use in talking about the Republican Party,” said Fleischman.

Contact Thy Vo at tvo@voiceofoc.org or follow her on Twitter @thyanhvo.

  • Blanca

    I agree forget your political rhetoric and focus on human rights and the survival of mankind. Thank you

  • Cynthia Ward

    I engage with Voice of OC for the investigative journalism I cannot get in the mainstream print media, but also for the (usually) intelligent and reasoned debate in the comments section, where opposing views are presented with respect, and I often learn something new I would not know about if I read only the media outlets that always agree with my political party registration. I am saddened at the outrageous descent into personal attack that has overtaken the Voice of OC comments section, and one the the worst examples is seen below. Over 2 dozen comments are posted on this article, nearly NONE of them address the issues within the article, and rely on finger pointing against political figures, rather than highlighting specific actions of those political leaders, or just plain lobbing word bombs at other readers in a display of partisan hatefulness that adds no value to the website. There is a clearly stated policy for commenting here, and I suggest everyone take a deep breath, read the policy, and rethink how we are addressing one another. Please. I have posted it below for those who missed it.

    America faces enormous problems today, and we are NOT going to resolve those issues by tearing each other apart. Stick to the issues and finding solutions to what we are dealing with. You don’t like Trump’s immigration policy? Suggest an alternative that addresses the issues that make undocumented immigrants the hot topic of political rhetoric. We do have some horrid examples of depravity who come to this country without documentation and then rape and murder, and ironically we hear about how many times they have ALREADY been deported, only to sneak back and continue their crime spree. So while I appreciate our new President trying to focus on those undocumented criminals who need to NOT be among us for the safety of our neighborhoods, deporting them has not worked. Meanwhile, we have decent people who are simply fleeing inhumane conditions elsewhere, and I think it is unfair to lump them into the same category as the repeat felons, and that is something BOTH SIDES are doing, as the Right wants to deport everyone and the Left wants to offer sanctuary to everyone, and somewhere in the middle is a reasonable answer that culls the repeat criminals from the family fleeing misery. When do we start seeing others as individuals instead of skin color or political affiliation or their citizenship status? Not ALL undocumented immigrants are good people looking for a better life, not all undocumented immigrants are rapists and murderers. Not all Democrats wanted Hillary, and many Democrats resent the sanctuary cities that offer protection to those whose criminal actions do not deserve sanctuary. (Don’t blame the Republicans when the Democrats presented a choice so bad that even those like myself who detest Trump preferred him to Hillary.) Likewise, not all Republicans voted for Trump, and not all who voted for Trump did so in support of what spews from his taco salad bowl intake center. We are individuals, not labels or voting records, and we need to talk to each other and not simply hurl insults.

    On abortion, they call it “pro choice” but no woman I have ever known really “chose” to have an abortion so much as they caved to the reality they felt they had NO CHOICE, so how much “choice” is really in that medical procedure? And why did the Women’s March allow ONLY pro-abortion groups to march? Groups that agreed on ALL OTHER issues were excluded because they failed to support abortion for ALL terms of pregnancy in all situations wth no restrictions and with government funding. Don’t believe that and all your support of “women’ issues” means nothing. So was the Saturday march about women or abortion? Because I know a lot of liberal women who support at least SOME restrictions on abortion, like late term etc. But we cannot discuss these differences when we are labeling each other and shoving other Americans into boxes pre-stenciled according to stereotypes, and we sure cannot discuss anything while calling each other names.

    There is NO black and white when it comes to ANY of these issues, just as there is no such thing as “all liberals” or “all conservatives” in the stereotypes repeated back in inane memes posted to Facebook. But as long as we only communicate with one another by throwing those memes (minus fact checking) that lump ALL Republicans into the racist, misogynist Trump feeding frenzy, or ALL Democrats as running around with latex vulvas on their heads, then Washington keeps spinning out of control, because we are too busy fighting each other instead of fighting a system that has denied us the basic civil rights of our Constitution, riding roughshod over us on behalf of whatever political group of the moment happens to be popular.

    I don’t think anyone here trusts government to get it right at this point, but solutions led by citizens have to come from a free exchange of ideas, respectfully presented and debated in a civil forum which is what Voice of OC’s comments section USED TO BE before November.

    And as stated above, here is the Comments Policy for Voice of OC, one they lack the staff to administer and trust US to monitor. I don’t think anything here is impossible to abide by, and I believe when we engage each other with at least some minimum level of civility we get a better discussion out of the website.

    Here are our Community Guidelines:

    Don’t use obscenities. Disqus will block comments containing vulgar and obscene language. If you want to have your say, keep it clean.

    Stay on Topic. Comments should be relevant to the article. Our website is not a place for users to have one-on-one arguments and free-ranging conversation. Don’t use public forums for individual communications.

    Be yourself – and not someone else. Don’t pose as another person when you are posting on the site.

    Be Respectful. Focus your remarks on positions, not personalities. No personal attacks, name-calling, libel, defamation, hate speech, obscene or pornographic language.

    • justanon

      Well, since we have negative immigration with Mexico right now trump’s wall building on the border is a solution without a problem.
      As for some heinous crimes being committed by undocumented immigrants, this is statistically insignificant:

      “121
      The number of people released from immigration custody who were later charged with murder between 2010 and 2014, according to figures from the Department of Homeland Security cited in a recent letter from two U.S. senators. That’s about a thousandth of a percent of the total estimated number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States.”

      http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/08/politics/immigrants-crime/

      Sanctuary cities by definition would not protect those folks (yes, sometimes people slip through the cracks, but if you use that standard our whole law enforcement/prison system should be scrapped). And as unfortunate as it is for those involved it isn’t wise to use a sledgehammer to solve a problem where a scalpel would be far more useful.

  • KenCoop

    Jim Lacy is wrong if he believes the GOP has nowhere to go but up. One only look at our paradise state to the west. The Hawaiian state senate has zero GOP members. When there are no GOP legislators and statewide officials, that is when the GOP will have hit rock bottom.

    • LFOldTimer

      No, that is when the STATE will have hit rock bottom. 🙂

      God forbid.

      But naturally that is the reason the dems are waving in all the illegals. Future democrats.

      • KenCoop

        Let’s hope so. The poorest states in the U.S. are mostly red states. No point in wanting to be like them.

        • LFOldTimer

          The BLS (a government agency) comes out with rankings of the most impoverished states in the union each year.

          California has ranked #1 for many years. About 1 of every 4 Californians lives in poverty.

          Get a clue.

          • justanon

            What BS.

            California is #9 in the “richest state” rankings.

            #9 California – Median household income: $61,933 Poverty rate: 16.4%

            Yes, CA has more poor people because we have a huge population, some of our cities have more people than some entire states, but that does not make us a “poor state”.

            Here’s a list of the ten “poorest states”:

            #1 Mississippi – Median household income: $39,680 Poverty rate: 21.5%
            #2 West Virginia – Median household income: $41,059 Poverty rate: 18.3%
            #3 Arkansas – Median household income: $41,262 Poverty rate: 18.9%
            #4 Alabama – Median household income: $42,830 Poverty rate: 19.3%
            #5 Kentucky – Median household income: $42,958 Poverty rate: 19.1%
            #6 Tennessee – Median household income: $44,361 Poverty rate: 18.3%
            #7 Louisiana – Median household income: $44,555 Poverty rate: 19.8%
            #8 New Mexico – Median household income: $44,803 Poverty rate: 21.3%
            #9 South Carolina – Median household income: $45,238 Poverty rate: 18.0%
            #10 Montana – Median household income: $46,328 Poverty rate: 15.4%

          • LFOldTimer

            California has about 12% of the nation’s population and 33% of the nation’s welfare recipients. And it ranks 3rd in the nation in per capita spending on welfare.

            And you want to import more poor people???? HAH!

            What a great plan!!!! LOL!

            Read the facts and weep!!!!

            http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sdut-welfare-capital-of-the-us-2012jul28-htmlstory.html

          • justanon

            KenCoop wrote ” The poorest states in the U.S. are mostly red states.” and that was a true statement. California is one of the richest states.

            You were wrong and now want to change the goalposts.

            Although, you might want to move to one of those ten poorest states as I’m sure they love to kick their poor people when they’re down and that would be right up your alley.

            Here in California where the cost of living is high, we at least try to be humane and that’s what really sticks in your craw, isn’t it?

          • LFOldTimer

            Naturally you failed to acknowledge the truth that I communicated…. that California has 12% of the nation’s population and 33% of the nation’s welfare recipients. lol.

            You represent the fake news.

            You refuse to debate in an honest way. Therefore, I choose to end our discussion.

            Now go bite your tail.

            Btw, who cares what KenCoop said? He’s as silly as you are.

          • justanon

            No, you chose a different measure, the original statement was about the “poorest” states being “red states” and it was true.

            If Ken had said something about the states with the most poor people, then you would be correct, but that wasn’t the statement was it?

            It’s not my fault you have poor comprehension skills.

          • James Lacy

            California has the highest poverty rate in the nation according to Census Bureau when cost of living is taken into account, and has been for two years. COL is the real measure of poverty because it takes everything into account. The real poverty rate in CA is 24% and that is deplorable.

          • justanon

            Even if you factor in the COL, CA has a poverty rate of 20.6 percent that still doesn’t make us one of the “poorest” states as our median household income is higher than most of the red states and that was the question that we were debating.

    • James Lacy

      Did you know that something like 24 counties in California voted for Trump over Hillary, even as Hillary defied the polls in our state? Republicans will do a little better in CA in 2018, for two reasons: 1) the cyclical nature of politics; 2) under Trump, the economy is going to markedly improve; incomes will rise; stocks will rise; 401 K’s will grow; people will have better health insurance; and because of this, Trump’s popularity will rise; and disaffected NPP voters will come back the the GOP in margins sufficient to establish that 2016 was the low point in CA.

      • KenCoop

        That means the 34 counties voted for Hillary. If Trump keeps pushing his agenda, he will put more GOP electeds at risk. IMO.

        The economic forecast remains to be seen. The market has zoomed back and forth.

        You make all these claims of what he is going to do. When? Because none of his actions so far have been to support any of the policies you believe will make things better.

  • Yvonne Hatch

    FTR Ken Coop…..I don’t give a damn what U think….!! Gov. Brown encouraged illegals to vote just as he’s letting them get drivers licenses….illegals have no rights in our state, what part of illegal don’t U understand! !! Illegals are what is keeping this a blue state…they all vote Democrat for the freebies they receive. ..but the Republican party is alive & well in this state.. & when feds stop giving Calif .federal funding because of Sanctuary Cities …it’s all gonna change…it’s sink or swim for Calif & the Democrats. ..It’s time for a Republican Governor who follows the laws of the land….!!

    • justanon

      You believe a lot of nonsense. There is no proof that undocumented immigrants vote in California.
      Unless you can provide verifiable proof of illegal voting you need to stop proclaiming it as true.
      As for trump’s revenge on sanctuary cities, we’ll see. It’s probably going to be a lot more flash (for his gullible minions) than substance.

      https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170127/civic-center/trump-sanctuary-city-executive-order-federal-funding-de-blasio

    • LFOldTimer

      You’re totally correct, Yvonne.

      In 2014 when Gov. Brown ran for reelection he debated on statewide TV. During the debate he was asked about driver’s licenses for illegals. He said illegals needed DL’s because they had to have some way to get to work in the morning!!!! LOL.

      So Brown not only endorses illegal foreigners violating the law by coming into the country – he also endorses illegal foreigners stealing US jobs thus violating State and Federal labor laws.

      This is the same Governor who took a sworn oath of office under oath to uphold the laws and defend the US Constitution.

      Gov. Brown should be in jail for aiding and abetting and perjuring himself under oath.

  • Jacki Livingston

    Thanks for deleting my comment. I would hate for anything to be anti-Trump.

  • Yvonne Hatch

    BS…. We are still here & we still vote.!!!…it’s just that we got outnumbered…by illegals….I stand by Trumps policies 100%….!!!!

    • KenCoop

      The illegal vote claim is bogus. It’s designed to appeal to the stupid amongst us.

      FTR, I don’t think you’re stupid, I just think you have bad luck when it comes to thinking.

  • LFOldTimer

    Bill Clinton’s State of the Union Address 1996:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKGoTlvTQlU

    Put some of that in your pipes and smoke it all you liberal Trump haters!!!!

    • justanon

      I wonder if you can get through one post about trump without mentioning Bill or Hillary Clinton?

      I’m sure that pretty soon your right-wing hate radio/tv/blogs will come up with a new boogey-man you can use to deflect from the disaster that is trump, and I’m sure you’ll climb on board bashing whoever and whatever incessantly.

      But please, until then, give it a rest. We get it, you hate the Clinton’s and think that every thing bad in this world is their fault. Really, stop, it’s quite ridiculous not to mention irrelevant and tiresome, you’re a broken record of hate-filled rants.

      • LFOldTimer

        Oh go find a Pink P*ssyHat protest to vent your butthurt over Trump’s win.

        In 1996 Clinton endorsed the same policy on illegal immigration that Trump endorses today. Why no protests from the illegal sympathizers back then?

        lol.

        • justanon

          You need to take a good long look in the mirror, you are so vile and offensive.
          If you are what trump empowers, the ugly and angry among us, what does that say?

          • LFOldTimer

            If you can’t take it don’t dish it out.

            That’s the truth about Clinton. It’s on video. You just can’t stand the truth.

          • justanon

            You waste space.

        • KenCoop

          The irony is that for eight years conservatives claimed Clinton was incompetent, incapable, corrupt, and lacked morality.

          Them using him now as justification only proves their insincerity.

      • verifiedsane

        I wonder if justanon could make a rational argument without spewing their communist anti-American rhetoric! NO! That’s just not possible; because just like MSM, they have nothing but straw man arguments, and fake news. If it wasn’t for the endless drool of their laughable hypocrisy, race baiting, and hate mongering; they would actually have nothing to say at all.

        • justanon

          What comment of mine spewed “communist anti-American rhetoric”?
          Or is that just more of your juvenile name-calling and throwing around words that you obviously don’t understand?

          You and LF, doing team trump proud, lol.

        • KenCoop

          The only fake news I see is on Fox or Breitbart. Believing something isn’t true doesn’t mean that belief is justified.

          • verifiedsane

            The liberal left continues to sound like a broken record of scatology set on repeat…This is one of many reasons why the Dums are now sitting on sidelines politically impotent, mired neck deep in the sting of vanquishing defeats…a fitting testament to lack of coherent direction, competence, insight, rectitude, and vision that signifies the Dumocratic party of today. When all you got is obstruction, attacks, street gatherings, an extreme vocal fringe, and silly hats; these are the ingredients of a political party moving toward a significant decline and continued election losses.

          • justanon

            When all you’ve got is a stream of insults and invective that means you ain’t got the facts.

            Too bad sonny boy, we’ve got your number. All hot air and no substance.

            Go now and wipe your pimply face on your mama’s apron.

    • Jacki Livingston

      This isn’t about liberal. This is about humanity. Trump is pure evil. I despise him.

    • KenCoop

      No one is saying there shouldn’t be deportations. This clip only reinforces that. I’m sure you don’t recognize the irony of your claim by posting this video.

      • LFOldTimer

        Your lame attempt to spin the Clinton video from 1996 is laughable.

        Today the Clintons represent the exact opposite of Bill professed in 1996. Both are incompetent. That’s the reason Trump pummeled Hillary in the election.

        Some key points Clinton made in his 1996 SOTU Address:

        1. Jobs that illegals hold might otherwise be held by US citizens and legal immigrants.

        2. The public services that illegals use impose a huge burden on the taxpayers.

        3. Secure the border and hire a record number of new border guards.

        4. Crack down on illegal hiring.

        5. We are a nation of immigrants but we are also a nation of laws.

        Today California wants to become a sanctuary state and protect illegal foreigners and all the libs cheer the lawless Sacramento democrat legislators on! lol.

        Take a look at LAPD’s most wanted. 9 out of the top 10 are illegal aliens. Obama’s boys. This is what the liberal democrats have to to the State of California:

        http://www.lapdonline.org/all_most_wanted

        • KenCoop

          Which doesn’t change the irony of you using him now as justification of this poorly thought out policy.

          • LFOldTimer

            I actually agreed with Clinton on this subject in 1996. He changed his position. He’s the flip-flopper. I didn’t change mine.

            How’d you like that LAPD most wanted list?

            Did any lights come on? Is there anybody home? lol.

            Are you still a fan of sanctuary cities? lol.

          • KenCoop

            I doubt you agreed with him. More convenient outrage.

          • LFOldTimer

            Why no comment on the LAPD most wanted list, KenCoop?

            Cat got your tongue???? LOL!

          • KenCoop

            Not relevant to the point I made earlier.

            It’s one of your feeble attempts at deflection.

          • justanon

            Clinton changed his opinion because times change, in the 90’s we were having a huge influx of undocumented workers, but now we don’t.

            Lying trump is creating a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist anymore and he’s going to waste billions of taxpayers dollars in the process just to give his racist base some red meat to chew on for awhile.

            It’s an incredibly foolish waste of time and money.

  • LFOldTimer

    Why would any genuine American reward illegal foreigners with a path to citizenship when there are literally millions of lawful immigrant applicants all over the world who have submitted their applications for entry to the US, paid their fees, learned English, provided information for health and background checks, taken their tests and then stand in line for 10 years or more for approval since there is no room or jobs available because of the millions of illegals already here?

    Why would any genuine American promote rewarding illegal foreigners while concurrently punishing lawful immigrant applicants?

    America is supposed to champion fairness. Rewarding illegal and punishing legal is clearly unfair.

    Why isn’t this concept ever discussed in the VOC blogs on immigration?

    We love our legal immigrants in America. Why not stand up for their rights once in awhile?

    • justanon

      What you call “fearless” the sane call “reckless”. No matter what you thought of Obama he didn’t create chaos, he was thoughtful and deliberative. His executive orders had been vetted by the agencies they affected, by the White House council and even sometimes double-checked by outside council, where as trump apparently just runs it by the crazy, white supremacist, Steve Bannon.

      What we have now is an out of control, ignorant, lying, mentally ill, buffoon as POTUS, who has no respect for the Constitution or traditional norms. I understand that that appeals to those who are bitter and small and long for revenge on a world that has passed them by, but for the rest of us it is a very worrisome development.

      • LFOldTimer

        ObamaCare = Reckless

        Open Borders = Reckless

        Creating ISIS = Reckless

        Turning Libya into a Terrorist State = Reckless

        Ilegal Attack on Syria & War Crimes = Reckless

        Dropping 26,000 bombs on 7 Foreign Nations in 2016 = Reckless

        Increasing National Debt from $10T to 20T in 8 years = Reckless

        Fast & Furious = Reckless

        NSA Spying on Innocent US Citizens = Reckless

        Releasing Guantanamo Prisoners Who Returned to Terrorism = Reckless

        False Promise to Withdraw All Troops from Afgahnistan = Reckless

        Failure to Pardon Snowden and Assange = Reckless

        Failure to Prosecute Wall Street Crooks = Reckless

        Want more?

        • justanon

          None of that was “reckless” (and some of it not even true), you’re just throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks.

          Let’s just examine the process behind the ACA or Obamacare, it was anything but “reckless” which makes me question whether you even know what the word means.

          FACT: The ACA had a historic number of hours of debate and amendments during Committee development of the legislations.

          FACT: The Senate held dozens of public meetings and hearings in both the Finance and HELP Committees and accepted hundreds of Republican amendments.

          FACT: The financing of the ACA’s coverage provisions was well known and debated.

          When the bill came to the floor, the Senate spent 25 consecutive days in session on health reform, the second longest consecutive session in history. In total, the Senate spent more than 160 hours considering the health reform legislation.

          • verifiedsane

            You meet the literal definition of insanity and stupidity…1. you actual believe the delusional fantasies and imaginary “facts” you spew with reckless abandonment…2. you are unable reflect upon your own ignorance and folly.

            Insanity holds out the possibility of treatment with proper intervention; yet unfortunately the “stupid” (unlike ignorance) is a permanent and terminal condition with no viable treatment option currently made available.

          • justanon

            Could you try sprinkling in some rational discourse in with your silly, hysterical, name-calling rants … just for some variety?
            So bored.

          • verifiedsane

            whatever comrade princess crybaby … 🙂

          • KenCoop

            You must not live in CA. The GOP are the crybabies. They complain about the Dems running the state.

          • verifiedsane

            LMAO…you’re actually bragging about how the Dems are running the state….you must be smoking some really powerful legal dope….I’m not a huge fan of the corruption from either party. I certainly wasn’t when the republican rhino’s had the governorship either!

            I’m just not for throwing out the baby with the dirty bath water, or by being so immersed in partisan rhetoric and blind indoctrination; that i can’t use my own critical thinking skills, deductive reasoning, and rational analysis to draw my own independent conclusions.

          • justanon

            “or by being so immersed in partisan rhetoric”

            Before you go laughing-your-*ss-off, you need to go and reread your own comments, sonny boy.
            Such complete delusion at such a young and tender age, sad, very sad.

          • verifiedsane

            Thank you J. Stalin…. was that the Red or Pink Army… 🙂

          • justanon

            You’re not even making any sense, just throwing out names is not a good debate strategy, sonny boy, you actually need substance.
            Again, just sad.