Will the ‘Trump Effect’ Help Democrats Turn Orange County Blue?

From left to right: Ed Royce of the 39th district, Mimi Walters of the 45th district, Darrell Issa of the 49th district and Dana Rohrabacher of the 48th district.

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Democrats are hoping what some call the “Trump effect” will cost as many as four local Republicans their seats in Congress.

“There’s no question the political landscape in Orange County has changed dramatically. None of these (four) politicians can count on an automatic re-election,” said Dan Schnur, a political science professor at the University of Southern California and the former communications director for Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain’s 2000 presidential campaign.

It began in November when Orange County residents, for the first time since 1936, cast more ballots for a Democrat for president than they did for the Republican candidate.

The “Trump effect” helped Democrats in a number of local races, fueling high turnout among Latinos and Democrats opposed to then-GOP presidential candidate Donald J. Trump, and depressed turnout among Republicans. That helped Democrat Sharon Quirk-Silva of Fullerton retake the 65th Assembly district for her party, and led to a close call for 16-year Republican incumbent Rep. Darrell Issa of Vista.

Now Democrats are hoping to target four traditionally safe OC Republican seats in 2018, when they try to take control of the House of Representatives.

Republicans currently control the House 237 to 193, with 5 vacancies.

In Orange County, Democrats see a chance to unseat longtime Republican incumbents in Congressional districts that voted for Hillary Clinton: 45th District Rep. Mimi Walters of Laguna Beach, Costa Mesa Rep. Dana Rohrabacher’s 48th District, Rep. Ed Royce of Fullerton in the 39th District and Issa’s 49th District.

Nationwide, Clinton won just eight Congressional districts that President Barack Obama lost, according to the Washington Post, with Walters’ and Rohrabacher’s districts among them.

Orange County’s shift is part of a statewide decline in GOP registration that has persisted for the past three decades.

Once known as one of the most conservative counties in the country, Orange County Republicans have slowly lost their edge over Democrats, maintaining just a 4 percent advantage in voter registration in the 2016 general election. Independents have also become a larger share of registered voters, at 24.3 percent.

The county has also become more ethnically diverse; with an ever-growing number of Latino and Asian American voters changing the county’s partisan equation. According to the 2010 Census, 33 percent of the population is Latino and 18 percent is Asian American.

Schnur said Trump also presented another challenge for Republicans. While Orange County has changed a lot, Republicans have been able to rely on their party’s infrastructure and deep roots in the county to keep their electoral edge.

“It may not be as deep red, but most of the county’s voters will be more inclined to vote Republican,” Schnur said. “Donald Trump’s candidacy created a different kind of shift because he’s been more successful with working class voters rather than the traditional Republican [base].”

Nowhere was a “safe” Republican caught sleeping like in the 49th Congressional district, where Issa has long relied on middle- to upper-income white Republicans. The district is mostly in San Diego County but includes the southern tip of OC.

Orange County Registrar of Voters

Darrell Issa was helped in November by heavy support from the portion of his district that falls in Orange County.

Issa squeaked by with a 0.6 percent lead over Democrat and retired Marine Col. Doug Applegate after winning eight previous elections by wide margins. Issa won in part because of heavy support in Orange County.

Issa, an early Trump supporter and best known for his zealous investigations into Democrats and the Obama White House as chair of the House Oversight Committee, has since distanced himself from the President by calling for an independent probe into Russia’s role in the election and for Attorney General Jeff Sessions to recuse himself.

A new data set analyzed and released by the Sacramento-based political consulting company, Political Data, Inc, gives a glimpse of some of the factors at play in this past election.

In all four districts, turnout among Republicans fell by up to 10 percent while Democrats’ and Independents’ share of the vote increased.

Political Data, Inc.

While conservative south Orange County heavily supported Issa, throughout his entire district Republican turnout fell while increasing among Democrats and Independents.

 

Tyler Law, national spokesman for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, said in a telephone interview that events since the election bode well for Democrats. He cited Trump’s low approval rating – currently at 44.5 percent, according to an average of ten national polls by RealClear Politics – and the fact that the president’s party typically loses seats in their first midterm election.

“Some Republicans have tried to make the case that tying House Republicans to Donald Trump did not work everywhere,” said Law. “But he was just a candidate. Now he’s president, they will have a voting record that matches his agenda, and they’re going to have to answer to that.”

But Jack Pandol, western regional press secretary for the National Republican Congressional Committee, said in an email “the Democratic Party is predictably recycling the same strategy that failed miserably last cycle. Our Republican candidates are well-established with their own individual identities as fighters for Southern California, and that’s why they’ll continue to win in 2018-just as they have in every cycle.”

Political Data, Inc.

Latinos and Asian Americans made up a large share of those who turned out to vote in November 2016.

Royce now faces a district that is 46 percent minority. Latino and Asian voters made up 44 percent of all the ballots cast in November, according to data analyzed by Political Data, Inc.

All four districts saw a growth in Latino turnout compared to previous elections, but Royce’s district saw the greatest surge. Latinos made up 24 percent of the vote in the 2016 general election, compared to 17 percent in 2014, a seven point difference.

Still, how much resources and manpower Democrats pour into these races will determine whether or not they can turn a county where most local elected officials, and the heft of local campaign donors, still lean Republican.

“Historically, Democratic turnout drops in midterm elections,” said Schnur, who added that historical precedents have not seemed to matter when it comes to Trump. “Trump may provide an added incentive, but it would be a historical aberration.”

It also depends on how much time Republican incumbents devote to their districts.

Already, all four representatives have been bombarded by protests at their local congressional offices in response to President Trump’s executive orders on immigration and his pledge to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

So far, Issa is the only Orange County congressman to hold a town hall, with one on Saturday drawing a crowd of nearly 500 people.

“Walters and Royce devoted a tremendous amount of time to their districts so they may be better protected,” said Schnur. “Issa and Rohrabacher, their political futures may have less to do with their districts and more to do with their own political identities.”

While minority voters have tended to help Democrats, Royce’s office and the local Republican party have made concerted efforts to reach out to Asian American voters countywide.

It’s also unclear whether Democrats will be able to recruit strong candidates to run.

Rohrabacher, who was first elected in 1988, Royce and Walters have been strong incumbents and each finished the Nov. 2016 election ahead by more than 14 points.

Applegate has said he will run against Issa again next year, and another Democrat, Mike Levin, has also thrown his hat into the ring. Ron Varasteh, who ran against Walters in November and lost by 17 points, will also run again.

At least three Democrats have said they want to run for Rohrabacher’s seat: Boyd Roberts, Harley Rouda and Laura Oatman. Former county GOP chair Scott Baugh and county Supervisor Michelle Park Steel, also a Republican, are said to be waiting for Rohrabacher’s retirement to run for his seat.

“There’s no question that these will be competitive races and folks on the ground recognize the opportunity to bring some much-needed change,” said Law. “It’s still very early in the cycle but we’re confident that there will be great candidates in these districts.”

Republican political strategist Jon Fleischman, who writes an online newsletter called The Flash Report, said many of these early predictions are just political posturing by both parties.

“The Republicans put out the list of people they’re targeting, the Democrats put out their list…and a year from now, we’ll find out if they’re serious,” said Fleischman. “That said, if you’re a Republican member of Congress in a district that voted for Clinton, that should be a wake-up call that you should be spending more time in your district.”

While it’s too early to tell, Fleischman says Trump’s success will be crucial for every Republican.

“If a year from now, we’re not getting a legislative agenda through Congress, and [Trump isn’t] able to talk about successes, I think there’s a reason for every Republican to be concerned about 2018,” said Fleischman.

Correction: A previous version of this article said “no Democratic challengers have so far emerged in the three other races.” Voice of OC regrets the error.

Contact Thy Vo at tvo@voiceofoc.org or follow her on Twitter @thyanhvo.

  • Rintrah

    Accurate article, the reaction from the ancient racist core of OC is comical. I agree with Lucas, Applegate is a lock to beat Issa. I’m a Navy vet with many contacts in Oceanside and even the old NCO’s were backing Applegate. In OC it seems that a Latino/Viet/college educated shift to the Dems will drown Mimi and Royce, Dana is more of a Wally George style entertainer. He is a great show and a real barrel of laughs!

    • verifiedsane

      “the reaction from ancient racist core of OC is comical” <—another demonstration of why 2018 will continue to prove disastrous for Democrats on a national scale….

  • @Dan Chmielewski

    Ty — there are two, possibly three Democrats ready to oppose Rohrabacher. There are two Democrats planning to challenge Walters. I know on a candidate ready to go after Royce. You left Mike Levin out of the story. He’s going after Issa. Top two move on and Issa is likely for one of the spots. Either Levin or Applegate get to move on to November 2018. Even more Democrats are ready to run but are keeping plans quiet for now

  • Karen Lawson

    As a 30year constituent of OC District 39, I’d love to know why USC professor Dan Schur is of the opinion that congressman Ed Royce has “devoted a tremendous amount of time” to his district. Royce has refused to meet with constituents in person, cherry-picked participant telephone calls during which questions are tightly controlled. Royce votes lock step with his party instead of representing his district, especially the 46% minority and 85K who will lose health insurance on passing the proposed AHCA bill. 2016 challenger Brett Murdock lost to Royce by 15points and has said he is seriously considering another run at mid term.

    • LFOldTimer

      The proposed AHCA will never get approved by Congress. It’s just as bad, if not worse, than ObamaCare. Trump is crazy to support it since the very people who voted him into office are productive middle class citizens who will take the brunt of the punishment with higher premiums and deductibles, moreso than they pay today. The seniors will take it in the shorts too.Trust me, there’s push back here from BOTH sides of the aisle here. AHCA as presently written is dead in the water.

      Allowing illegal aliens to have MediCal coverage (those 19 years old and younger are entitled that benefit today) is a deal breaker. Americans are not going to allow politicians to raise our premiums and deductibles while illegal aliens get free treatment. AHCA would be an albatross tied around Trump’s neck. I think he’s secretly trying to set Paul Ryan up for failure so he can gleefully watch him twist in the political winds. There is no love lost between those two. Trump is a smart guy. He’s not going to hitch his wagon to a sure failure that will ignite the wrath of Democrats and Republican alike.

      • justanon

        Your boy trump, is backing this Bill 100%.

        “To further push conservatives to get on board, President Trump and the White House have made their most aggressive push on legislative efforts yet. Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price sent a letter to committee leaders Tuesday morning signaling Trump’s support for the legislation, and the president tweeted that he backed the bill. Trump later hosted a group of lawmakers at the White House and said he was “proud to support” the plan. His press secretary, Sean Spicer, said in his briefing that it represented “the plan the president ran on.”

        Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
        I feel sure that my friend @RandPaul will come along with the new and great health care program because he knows Obamacare is a disaster!
        4:14 PM – 7 Mar 2017
        http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/03/08/trump_pushes_gop_health_care_bill_as_conservatives_revolt.html

        Ha, ha, ha it sure looks like trump pulled ANOTHER fast one on his supporters! I guess he was just bullsh*tting the rubes when he said:

        “We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said in an interview with The Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”

        http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-promises-236021

        • LFOldTimer

          The difference between you and me is that if some politician on my side of the aisle doesn’t do as he or she promised I actually call them out and openly criticize. You make excuses for the dopes (like Obama) on your side of the aisle even when you know they’re dead wrong. Thus, you have no credibility with me. You’re just another mouthpiece.

          Trump actually said that the AHCA is a work in progress and is negotiable. I guess you didn’t get that part of his message. Or maybe you did and just ignored it.

          Just because I support Trump it doesn’t mean that I would agree with him on every single issue. I’m not tied to his hip like the left was (is) tied to Obama’s hip.

          • justanon

            Oh please, this from the guy who’s so partisan that if his ‘news’ doesn’t come directly out of a right-wing blow-hole he labels it “fake” and believes with ‘all-his-heart’ every BS crazy anti-democrat story or conspiracy theory they concoct (of course so does trump, lol).

            You’re right about one thing though, the right is not ‘tied at the hip’ to trump, but rather another part of his anatomy … lips to *ss.

          • LFOldTimer

            I consider you the Rachel Maddow of VOC.

          • justanon

            Thank you, that’s high praise indeed.

          • LFOldTimer

            Of course, that’s a matter of opinion.

            Her most recent stunt with Trump’s tax return was about as dumb as it gets.

          • justanon

            Ha, ha, ha, she spent the first half hour of that highly watched show on trump’s Russian ties and Michael Flynn’s foreign agent status and still managed to drive home the point that WE NEED TO SEE trump’s TAX RETURNS IN THEIR ENTIRETY (of course, all you’d know about her show was what would’ve been spoon-fed to you from some right-wing slime sites, can’t think for yourself can you?).

            That’s called being … crazy like a fox.

          • LFOldTimer

            She must have alienated more than half of her regular audience by the stupid stunt she pulled. I bet her ratings fall l to all-time lows after that show. But when one is desperate for viewers in the first place – what’s to lose? I predict she’ll be off the air within 6 months.

            You say “crazy like a fox”. I say crazy like a loon.

          • justanon

            You kill me, we have a narcissistic, lying, traitor as POTUS and THE BEST news anchor covering him is going to go “off the air”.

            In your right-wing fevered dreams, lol.

          • LFOldTimer

            Maddow hurt the liberal cause. All this time the libs have been screaming “Trump doesn’t pay any taxes!!!” Then Maddow released Trump’s leaked 2005 tax return which showed he actually paid $38 million in taxes on $150 million in income!!! lol. About a 25% tax rate – A HIGHER RATE THAN OBAMA, BERNIE AND ROMNEY PAID!!! LOL!

            Maddow proved that she will do anything to increase her viewer ratings – even MAKE TRUMP LOOK GOOD AND RUIN THE LIBERAL TALKING POINTS!!! LOL!

            If I were a liberal I would never watch her show again. She is a traitor to the liberal agenda. I bet she caused Trump’s approval ratings to increase by 5 points!!! LOL!

          • justanon

            It actually was a 24% tax rate and he only paid that much because of the alternative minimum tax, otherwise he would have paid a 3.5% tax rate and guess what? Little donnie wants to eliminate the AMT as part of his huge tax give away for the very wealthy, how very convenient.

            On her show both Rachel and David Kay Johnson both speculated that trump released this partial tax return himself. There is no way to know whether 2005 was the most he ever paid in any year, in other words a one-off. Also because it was a partial (only two pages) tax return we don’t know where his earnings originated or his charitable giving both of which would be very revealing.

            Again, you’re getting your anti-Maddow hysteria from your right-wing slime sites. Rachel Maddow doesn’t LIE to her audience like your favored ‘news’ sites. Rachel informs her audience. Hence my greater knowledge of what trump’s tax returns meant over your hysterical little misinformed rant.

            You ‘think’ you are so knowledgeable, but you really just regurgitate the cr*p they feed you on the right. If you had any self-awareness you would be embarrassed by the fact that you are proven wrong over and over again.

            Doesn’t it bother you that they mislead you with fake news?

            Nah, once a gullible chump always a gullible chump.

          • LFOldTimer

            It was reported that Trump paid $38M on an income of $150M. 38 is actually 25.3% of 150. It’s called math.

            All the pundits (including the leftists) agree that Maddow stepped in it up to her pelvic bone by publishing Trump’s tax return. It made liars out of millions of liberals who previously claimed that Trump pays no taxes when he paid at a higher tax rate than the Obamas, Bernie, Romney and most of the liberal corporations like Google and Apple. LOL.

            You don’t know who released Trump’s tax return. More fake speculation. Most experts believe it was not Trump at all. Most believe it was an government insider who took a payoff.

            Maddow is the queen of fake news. She routinely reports fake news and omits all the factual news to promote her prejudiced progressive agenda. She make Goebbels look like Mother Theresa.

            I’ve taken you to the woodshed multiple times on this comment board. You have a history of refusing to directly respond to the points that I make. You circumvent and mislead to further your political agenda.

          • justanon

            Sorry, according to David Kay Johnston he paid 24% (36.6 million) and he’s giving an accurate accounting not just the shorthand version.

            http://www.npr.org/2017/03/15/520223185/leaked-returns-give-insight-into-trumps-taxes

            And no, not “all the pundits” agree with your BS about Maddow, just the right-wing slime sites you peruse and their only interest is ‘sliming’ anybody on the left.

            You’re so busy using the word”fake” you don’t even know what it means anymore old fool, they really did “speculate” whether trump released his tax returns so there was no “fake speculation”, lol.

            “Maddow is the queen of fake news” Uh huh sure, like you’ve ever watched her show, the only thing you know about her show is the ridiculous characterizations that you read about on your slime sites. You have no credibility, you have no ability to think for yourself, in short, you are a sad, foolish rube.

            You and trump … ignorance mixed with arrogance make for an ugly, ugly world view.

          • LFOldTimer

            Maddow told us he paid $38M in taxes. You mean she screwed that up too?

            Trump should award her 2 free meals at Trump Towers for being the most useful idiot on the progressive team.

          • justanon

            The ONLY “useful idiots” are chumps like you. Folks like you are constantly duped by the media you seek out, right-wing ‘news’ sites with selective information and slime mongering to reinforce all their propaganda.

            Your only awareness of Rachel Maddow is what’s been spoon-fed to you and then you run around parroting that cr*ppola like you just sh*t a golden egg.
            Ha, ha, ha, only other delusional chumps believe anything you or your so-called POTUS have to say.

            FYI: It’s not a coincidence that REALITY has a liberal bias,LOL.

          • LFOldTimer

            With the help of Frau Maddow the progressives lost the House, the Senate and the Executive Office. The hat trick. lol.

            Keep flapping your gums, Rachel. You’re the gift that keeps on giving to the GOP!

          • justanon

            And with the help of traitorous trump her ratings are soaring, lol.

  • Ed Romero

    Yes, Orange County should turn BLUE, after what the GOP allowed those Drug Dealing, Marijuana Smoking, Cocaine Snorting Racist Lesbians that led the O C GOP for years, they were led by that former Chairperson of the O C GOP, who use to Smoke so much Marijuana at home that her neighbors would call our Probation Department Records Unit complaining that their houses were full of Marijuana fumes. There must be someone in the O C GOP that can explain to me how someone with a HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION, and so unqualified became a JUDGE, then CHIEF PROBATION OFFICER and finally DIRECTOR OF HEALTH for the County of Orange, ALL WITH A HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION. She finally retired/resigned when it was EXPOSED that she all her Drug Addicted Lesbian Employees hung out at that Lesbian Bar in Garden Grove, where the Chief Probation Officer would write out a check to the Bar Owner and the doors would be locked, the lights turned off, the music turner up and a MATTRESS thrown on the POOL TABLE. Everyone knew about this and NO ONE DID A THING ABOUT.

  • LFOldTimer

    Again, Thy fails at full disclosure.

    It’s not the “Trump Effect”. It’s the demographic effect.

    There are over 300,000 illegal aliens living in OC. Over 10% of the population. OC is importing massive amounts of poverty.

    You can just imagine how many anchor babies are here.

    People who want free stuff vote for Democrats. All honest people know that.

    People (and businesses) of means are fleeing California like there’s an epidemic of the bubonic plague.

    What’s it going to look like when over 50% of the California population is impoverished? Go visit Senegal. There’s your future.

    A real piece of journalism would point these things out.

    • Bill Colver

      With all these people that are supposedly leaving, that means traffic will be better. Right?

      Tell me the downside.

      • LFOldTimer

        If for every person of means who leaves is replaced by an illegal alien how exactly does that improve traffic? Didn’t you know that illegals are entitled to DL’s in California?

        The additional downside (besides continued traffic congestion) is that nearly all illegals are indigents who rely on free public services and community resources to survive. But the person of means is no longer around to pay for it. Catch my drift? That translates into more tax increases on those with decent incomes and those who own property to compensate for the people of means who left the state and are no longer here to subsidize social services. Are you following yet?

        Do your research. Look at any society that has as many or more poor people as people of means. In general – they call it “the third world”.

        I hope that clarifies my comment for you.

        • Bill Colver

          You wrote:

          “People (and businesses) of means are fleeing California like there’s an epidemic of the bubonic plague here.”

          If (as you claim) illegal immigrants are moving in then the net effect is people are not leaving in droves.

          The rest of your screed is nonsensical fantasy. Those here illegally are doing jobs you or your children won’t do. Until the issue of employers (typically conservative) hiring the undocumented is addressed they will continue coming.

          • LFOldTimer

            Read my comment again. People of means are leaving in droves. Businesses are leaving in droves. The impoverished are moving in and replacing the people of means. In just the last few years California has become one of the most, if not THE most, poverty saturated state in the union. Don’t you understand that brings down the quality of life for all of us?

            “Those here illegally are doing jobs you or your children won’t do.”

            That’s unadulterated BS. Illegals take jobs in construction, transportation, manufacturing, food service, hospitality, auto detailing and repair, and landscaping. Jokers like you want us to believe all they do is pick strawberries in the fields. lol.

            That’s why we elected Trump. To start to enforce basic rule of law that was enacted to make us a civilized society.

            If you want to live in the 3rd world – then go there. We prefer 1st world status.

          • Bill Colver

            And who is hiring those willing to do the jobs you listed.

            Slavery will never be legally reinstated, but for some American business the millions of illegal aliens are the next best thing: Illegal foreigners accept exploitation, don’t complain about hazardous conditions, work for sub-living wages and don’t demand expensive benefits. Why else would a company hire a non-English speaker who cannot understand instructions?

            Our history of importing foreign workers is rooted not in a true need for such labor, but because American businesses want to avoid increasing the wages of their domestic workers.

            The real demand for illegal immigrant labor comes from employers who pay minimum or below legal wages, while burdening the rest of society with the social costs.

            Yet you blame the undocumented coming here. Many of whom are fleeing political and economic oppression similar to refugees that have been welcomed with open arm. Some on a non-quota basis.

          • LFOldTimer

            Typical liberal response.

            The illegals broke the law first by entering the country UNLAWFULLY. Taking unauthorized work was their SECOND criminal act. It is a violation of both State and Federal labor laws to work in the country without authorization.

            Where did I say the employer shouldn’t get punished? Of course they should. And I hope that Trump starts enforcing the law. If you don’t like rule of law go live in a country where there’s anarchy. Write us and tell us how you like it there.

            No one forced the illegal to cross the border unlawfully and take a job in violation of State and Federal labor laws. Slavery only exists when a person in FORCED into labor against his will.

            Please stop with the liberal gobbledygook.

            Just like individuals, American businesses are obligated to follow the law. I say throw both the employer and the illegal in jail. Two birds with one stone.

            You are attempting more liberal palaver by painting the illegal to be the victim. HA! So ridiculous. How stupid do you think the readers of these blogs are, Einstein?

            They come to America for the freebies. Not due to political or economic oppression. We have our own underclass in America to take care of. We don’t need other nations piling on by sending their illiterate indigents who steal resources and jobs from our own citizens.

            Don’t you need to change the strings on your violin??? 🙂

          • Bill Colver

            Where did I say they hadn’t violated the law? This is a simple supply and demand issue. The employers have the demand those supplying their service are willing to accept the legal consequences of coming here to work for those employers.

            Until the employers start getting thrown in the slammer nothing will change. All the classifications won’t change a thing other than making people like feel good.

            Would you like some cheese with that whine?

          • LFOldTimer

            So let me see if I understand your logic.

            Even though the illegals broke in the country (1st crime) and took illegal employment (2nd crime) and very possibly used false ID to obtain said employment (3rd crime) – you think they should get a pass and NOT go to jail – but the employer who only committed ONE crime should get thrown in the slammer??? lol.

            Do you make decisions that affect other people’s lives? Just curious?

          • Bill Colver

            They should get the same pass as the employers get for hiring undocumented immigrants. As is typical with many conservatives, you’re looking in the wrong direction. Until the demand is extinguished, the supply will continue. It’s Econ 101.

          • LFOldTimer

            “They should get the same pass as the employers get for hiring undocumented immigrants.”

            They did under Obama. When’s the last time you heard of an illegal going to prison for stealing a job from an American or from a legal resident?

            But there’s a new sheriff in town who actually believes in the US Constitution and rule of law.

            Did you read the news?

            Does a larger supply of banks justify a greater demand for bank robbers?

            The US citizen underclass has an unemployment rate of over 15%. What about that supply? Or did that slip your mind?

          • Bill Colver

            You wrote:

            “Does a larger supply of banks justify a greater demand for bank robbers?”

            Bad analogy. Banks don’t ask to be robbed. Many businesses openly solicit the undocumented.

            Try again.

          • LFOldTimer

            That’s all you got for a comeback to my detailed comment?

            Thanks for playing.

            It was fun.

          • Bill Colver

            Yup. I find this to be very common amongst individuals like you. You throw out a ton of ancillary issues while ignoring the systemic cause. Your disjointed points are a classic example of what John Wooden referred to as one’s confusing “activity with achievement.”

            Once again. Until the systemic issue of employers openly seeking to hire undocumented workers at sub standard wages and horrible working conditions individuals willing to work under those circumstances will keep coming since Americans aren’t willing.

            This has been fun for me as well.

          • LFOldTimer

            Pretty words.

            Nice attempt at a dodge.

            It failed.

            Those who avoid a real back and forth debate have no substantive argument to start with.

            It’s one, two, three strikes you’re out at the old ball game.

          • Bill Colver

            That’s true. You’ve yet to respond to my issue about the systemic cause of illegal immigration.

            Until you address that issue, the problem will continue. Despite your carpings about them breaking the law. The Americans benefiting the most don’t care about your legal concerns. They’re making billions while you and I foot the bill.

          • LFOldTimer

            Why do people rob banks? For the money.

            Why do people unlawfully enter our nation and steal jobs and live off our resources? Because it’s easier to harm others than it is to work for change in their own countries.

            In other words, laziness and apathy.

            See? I answer your questions. You ignore mine. Why? Because you know I have you cornered.

            Your arguments are circular and feeble.

            Enjoy your day.

          • Bill Colver

            You continue to avoid the point. But I’ll tweak your analogy to help you understand.

            People rob banks for the money.
            Undocumented immigrants go work for employers, unwilling to pay a wage high enough to attract legal citizens, for the money.

            I hope that helps. You have a great day as well.

          • LFOldTimer

            You still don’t get it, Bill.

            Illegals KNOWINGLY break the law by entering the country and KNOWINGLY break the law again by taking employment (a violation of both state and Federal laws).

            But apparently you don’t have much use for the law since you seem to avoid reality and make excuses for them by pointing a finger of blame at the employer.

            You should get together with Dan and move to a country that promotes full anarchy and open borders. I bet you’d be in pig heaven together.

            Be sure to send us a postcard and let us know how you’re doing. lol.

          • Bill Colver

            That’s all true. They come here knowingly breaking the law and by taking employment because there is a metaphorical American business holding up a sign at the border saying “Help Wanted.” Until you start penalizing the person hiring them you are just so much background noise that is easily ignored.

            I have no idea what you are referencing with your final statement. Maybe you’re day drinking.

          • LFOldTimer

            Earth to Bill!!!!

            Maybe if we punished the illegals they would stop breaking into our country!

            Did that ever occur to you?

            If they stopped breaking into the country there would be no more illegals for the employers to hire!!!

            Duh???

          • Bill Colver

            Maybe if we punished the employers hiring them they would stop coming since there would be no opportunity to benefit economically.

            Duh??

          • LFOldTimer

            Since it’s the illegals who committed the first crime by entering the country unlawfully it only makes sense to from a deterrent aspect to punish them hard for both crimes at once so they won’t come back into the country a second time.

            Real Americans want those who enter the country illegally and steal jobs, thus taking bread from the mouths of US citizens and legal immigrants, punished and punished hard. They are harming LEGAL immigrants who play by the rules and want to come to America according to the law. Those are the immigrants we want and need. Not those who have no respect for rule of law. If they’ll break one law they’ll break a dozen more laws. They’re a detriment to society. If you don’t come into the country legally, we don’t want you!

          • Bill Colver

            Hahahaa….so cute. Why would they not come back?

            Your claim of them stealing jobs is laughable. I’ll believe it to be true when I read about students at Woodbridge HS getting turned away from picking strawberries.

            Your desire to only address one aspect of the issue will only ensure it never ends.

          • verifiedsane

            If readers were to accept Bill’s (and the Left’s views in general)about the illegal alien issue…you would also have to accept that illegal drugs coming from cartels in foreign countries should viewed as a lesser issue than the people that consume them, because there is a high demand for those substances from addicts in this country. In fact if you take his argument a step further, we should really punish and focus drug enforcement and penalties upon those addicts for the consumption of those poor illegal cartel bosses & their products that are smuggled into and distributed in this country illegally. After all it’s the addicts that are driving the demand or at least that is the illogical argument the left would be making that corresponds with their argument of employers hiring illegal immigrants. There is a demand that is not being met by domestic business and production, so we should go after those that would benefit most (addicts) with are enforcement efforts, instead of focusing enforcement upon the illegal smuggling and distribution of those drugs. see how ridiculous that sounds…

            The left’s secondary auxiliary arguments make no rational sense…of course employers who knowing hire illegal workers should be punished for their violations of law. But, the cart before the horse approach is no real solution, it’s just a deflection tactic & disingenuous hyperbole to divert attention from the actual root problem..ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!

            If illegal immigration laws were enforced and deportations were expedited….free market forces would makes the jobs they steal from American citizens and legal immigrants much more attractive & lucrative employment opportunities. Let’s face it; legal citizen minority and inner city communities our the ones the suffer the most by illegal immigration. It’s their opportunities and jobs that are being stolen away.

            Of course this may mean the ruling oligarchy of both parties might have to start cleaning some their own houses, cutting some their own grass, washing their own cars, start spending time with their own children, businesses will have to find a better & more economical way to run their farm operations, and many other various positive outcome examples to which obedience of our laws may have positive results for the society. Those of course are only a few categories of jobs illegal immigration steal from the citizen and legal work force; construction, the service industry’s, the transportation sector, industrial production, and many others are also adversely effected.

            No one is going to make an argument that there are not employers that want to take advantage of cheap illegal labor to increase profits and reduce cost. That is a just one system of the illegal immigration disease; not the root cause and effects of unregulated, unenforced, and out of control illegal immigration.

            Shall will go into the problem of cost? The undue burden this places upon our educational systems, health care services, and many other private/government social services provided to illegal aliens at a high expense to citizen, legal immigrants, and our greater society.

            or shall we discuss the horrific effects felony criminal illegal immigrants have upon our society (and deflecting to domestic criminals is no argument). This is another rabbit whole the Left wishes to ignore, make excuses, or play apologist for.

            We have sovereign borders and immigration laws for good reason; as there is very good reason and sound rational behind enforcement of those laws. The Left can dance around the issue nibbling upon the fringe edges; but those arguments really hold little weight or much validity when this issue is viewed upon in its entirety.

          • Bill Colver

            Believing that demand (of drugs and labor) is not a factor in both (illegal drugs and labor) coming into the country is naive at best.

            Attacking the issue from one side is a losing battle. How long has the war on drugs been in place? Would you say the usage/demand for illegal drugs has been curtailed by those efforts? We’ve created just the opposite.

            As long as the demand is in place there will be those willing to supply. Not punishing those who demand illegal labor is shortsighted at best.

          • LFOldTimer

            The real evil ones who take advantage of folks like Bill are the 3rd world governments who ENCOURAGE their underclass to leave their countries and invade America (and wire money back to their home nations to increase their GDP!).

            They don’t send their college grads to America. Only their illiterate indigents and criminals who would be burdens in their own societies. So in effect they say “Go to America. Let the stupid Americans take care of you. You’re of no use to us. Go be their burdens. Just make sure to wire the money you make at your illegal jobs back to us!!”

            So Bill’s taxes go up to pay for all the social services for the illiterate indigents who never really amount to anything and become perpetual burdens on the US taxpayers.

            Then Bill can’t understand why his taxes go up and why there is more crime & graffiti in his neighborhood, why the freeways are so crowded, why there’s no money for the cities to fix the potholes in the street and why there are cutbacks on funding for extracurricular activities for citizen students in the schools!

            LOL!!!

          • Bill Colver

            Verifiedsane brings up a good analogy. Given all the energy that has been committed to enforcement, how has that worked out over the last several decades?

            I understand why all of the things you mention are happening. You don’t understand why it’s happening.

          • verifiedsane

            Bill, your retort comment does not accurately depict what I wrote or implied…I was stating that supply and demand are secondary auxiliary arguments, and do not encompass or constitute the root cause & effect of the illegal immigration problem…I also expressively stated that employers that hire illegal immigrants should be held fully accountable by all applicable laws. I was only attempting to demonstrate in a short opinion comment that when one steps back and views the illegal immigration issue in a broader perspective: it is reasonable and a rational deductive argument to draw a conclusion that the enforcement of existing immigration laws and expedited deportation is the most reasonable and best first step solution to the problems that illegal immigration creates for our nation and society. thank you for participating… 🙂

          • Bill Colver

            I’ll make it as clear as possible. Only penalizing one side of this equation will ensure the issue remains in the status quo.

          • LFOldTimer

            Excellent analysis, Verfied!

            When I was a kid I used to go around the neighborhood and ask people if I would cut their grass, weed their garden. wash their cars, clean their windows, etc… to make some extra spending money in the summertime. By doing so I learned the value of work and money and how the two complimented one another.

            If I were a kid today I wouldn’t have a chance. The illegals would put me out of business. This has widespread ramifications in our society. The values that kids learn in their formative years are the values they carry into adulthood. If they don’t learn the value of entrepreneurialism at a young age – most become just another spoke in the wheel as they get older who expect others to meet their needs. 85% of motorists don’t even know how to change the oil in their own cars. They pay somebody else $45 to do it!

            The illegals are the first ones to commit a criminal act by entering our country. One crime leads to another. Bill won’t let that simple concept stick between his two ears.

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            it didn’t fail you’re a bigot

          • LFOldTimer

            Oh, that was clever, Dan.

            Due to people like you who misuse the word “bigot” it’s completely lost it’s punch. Now when you call us “bigots” we just laugh at you. You’re not doing your cause any favors.

          • Bill Colver
          • LFOldTimer

            Apparently you didn’t read that in Trump’s recent budget proposal he wants funding to eventually mandate E-Verify for all employers.

            Another nasty factoid that will probably throw you into a tailspin. lol.

          • Bill Colver

            Why would that put me into a tailspin? Do yourself a favor and don’t pretend to know what others are thinking…..lol

          • LFOldTimer

            You linked an article which stated in the title that Trump wasn’t cracking down on employers for hiring illegals.

            I posted a factoid to tell you that he has proposed funding for eventually mandating E-Verify to target employers.

            It hurts when someone posts a counterargument that refutes a position that you communicated, doesn’t it?

            If the rules of the comment board game bother you – don’t play.

          • Bill Colver

            Let me know when one of them goes to jail.

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            are you willing to pick strawberries for less than minimum wage?

          • LFOldTimer

            Less than 1% of illegals in the state pick strawberries. So put a lid on it. Do you think you’re chatting with 7 year olds here?

            The government awards work visas for all the produce pickers that the farmers need. Hopefully they’ll mechanize crop harvesting soon so we can send them all home.

            The overwhelming majority of illegals in California steal jobs that US citizens and legal immigrants would work. The myths the libs promote are nonsensical.

            Not only do they steal jobs. They cause blight and social disarray. 30% of our jail beds are occupied by illegal foreigners.

            Wake up, Dan. It’s 2017. Rev up the time machine.

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, who was the first combat veteran to die in the Iraq War, was an undocumented immigrant taking a job that should have gone to an American right? He was granted American citizenship posthumously. There are another 38,000 non-citizens in uniform, including undocumented immigrants, defending our country. But we should kick them all out right?

          • LFOldTimer

            Cpl. Guterrez is one in six million. But leave it to the left to cherry pick.

            You don’t mention 30% of the California State prison inmates who happen to be illegal aliens with tats from head to toe. ha. Funny how that works. lol.

            Please stop with the disingenuous comments. You aren’t chatting with 3rd graders here.

            Let’s have a real debate.

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/aug/25/lamar-smith/mostly-false-lamar-smith-claim-one-third-federal-i/

            Percentages of jailbeds occupied by non-citizens is lower than you say

            The U.S. Department of Labor’s National Agricultural Workers Survey (NAWS) provides information about the immigration status of hired crop farmworkers but does not cover the livestock sector, for which no similar data are available. Of those crop workers surveyed between 2007 and 2009, 71 percent were foreign-born (67 percent in Mexico and 4 percent elsewhere). Forty-eight percent of crop workers surveyed indicated that they were not legally authorized to work in the United States, down slightly from the peak of 54 percent in 1999-2001.

            from the Daily Beast: A recent report by researchers at the University of Southern California, for example, says immigrants who are in California illegally make up nearly 10 percent of the state’s workers and contribute $130 billion annually to its gross domestic product.

            The study found that the estimated 2.6 million immigrants who are living in California illegally account for as much as 38 percent of the agriculture industry. Farming insiders put the figure at over 50 percent. Illegal immigrants also constitute at least 14 percent of the construction industry. You’ll also find them well represented in the hospitality industry, landscaping industry, and just about every other line of work in the state that requires breaking a sweat.

            The study, which was conducted in conjunction with the California Immigrant Policy Center, was based on Census data and other statistics, including figures from the Department of Labor and the Department of Homeland Security.

            But, as this study makes clear, if the Golden State didn’t have illegal immigrants, it would have to invent them. And if California’s industries suddenly had to rely on a completely legal workforce and couldn’t hire another undocumented person, many of them would be out of business.

            It’s you who needs to do research. Knock yourself out. I can do this all day.

          • LFOldTimer

            The US government provides work visas to as many foreign crop pickers as the farmers need. There is no reason to hire illegal workers for those jobs.

            Illegals committed 2 serious crimes by taking work in America, and possibly 3: 1) Unlawful entry 2) Labor law crimes 3) Identity Theft.

            Do you support foreigners coming to America by way of committing crimes?

            Do you think we should just eliminate rule of law?

            The overwhelming majority of illegals in California take jobs that US citizens and legal immigrants would take. They steal jobs from those who should have them. And they delay entry of LEGAL immigrants who have followed the laws by submitting their applications for US work visas – so they have to stand in line indefinitely.

            Do you consider that a fair practice? Do you like it when someone cuts in front of you at the checkout stand at the local grocery store?

            “But, as this study makes clear, if the Golden State didn’t have illegal immigrants, it would have to invent them.”

            That’s complete horsepuckey. If we needed more immigrants to fill work positions there are literally MILLIONS of them waiting overseas (who have submitted their applications, paid their fees, taken their tests, had their backgrounds screened, etc…) and want to come to America THE LEGAL WAY!!!

            Why would you want to give an ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ALIENS priority over LEGAL IMMIGRANTS who play by the rules???

    • @Dan Chmielewski

      The term “anchor babies” is racist and offensive. Undocumented immigrants don’t vote here and see another story on this site demonstrating that voter fraud is not a problem in Orange County. “All honest people know” that conservatives want to pay almost no taxes and complain about cops, roads, teachers, the DMV not realizing that taxes pay for all of this. There are quite a new businesses moving into California and some are leaving. Perhaps its time for you to pack your bags for a place where white sheets and cross burnings are more popular — it would suit you.

      • verifiedsane

        Thank you for playing language cop for everyone here, and by letting us know which terms are considering “politically correct speech” and which are not…the only thing offensive and racist about the term “anchor babies”; is that illegal aliens are allowed to sneak across our sovereign borders (a crime) with the intent to give birth, so that their new born can gain citizenship status and all the citizen tax payer benefits that go along with that designation.

        Of course in your far left universe of Cultural Marxism there are no borders, laws, or enforcement. Instead you’re all about calling honest citizens racist, bigots, and worse; simply because they may have different opinions, opposing political views, or that they express their first amendment right to free speech.. So, who the h*ll are you to direct LFOldTimer “its time for you to pack your bags for a place where white sheets and cross burnings are more popular” (or any other citizen for that matter). In my opinion, you are simply a tunnel vision idiot hiding behind the “mother may I” skirt of the Dumocratic party.

        Just possibly, it’s you that should join all those socialist & communist Hollywierd types that promised to leave America if President Trump was elected and then didn’t. I’m sure you can pony up a few bucks together to procure a leaky rust-bucket to China in quick order. Hey everyone wins, since you can take your “anchor babies” with you to create your own little liberal Nirvana state (with communist party approval of course).

        The Libs and Dums like Dan just don’t get it…they lost power & elections across America, and are still are using the same failed sleazy, dishonest, and hate filled tactics hoping for a different outcome.

        Good luck with having that heavy anchor and extremist moniker hung around your neck going into the 2018 campaign season Danny boy..

        • @Dan Chmielewski

          You can say whatever the hell you please to say. I’m delighted you say things they way you do because it simply proves your level of intelligence…not exactly a Rhodes Scholar are you? And so brave to hide behind a “certifiedsane” pen name; not so brave are you? If fact, you’re a coward…a keyboard commando afraid to have his/her bigotry outed. Bet you fly a Confederate Flag at your house while you urge me to “get over it.” If you’re the religious type, you might want to re-read the Gospel for what the Good Lord has to say about welcoming immigrants…..

          • verifiedsane

            Coming from a dunce, documented reprobate, & an ordained cultural Marxist Dumocratic such as yourself Danny boy…I will take your witless & noxious attacks, and wear them as a badge of honor…

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            knock yourself out coward….you’re a racist and an idiot. no one takes you seriously. Keep hiding … coward

          • verifiedsane

            I will take that as the lunatic position of the OC Dumocratic party & their non-leadership…such hypocritical tolerance and inclusion coming from Oh! Comrade Danny Boy….LMAO

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            Judge not, that he be not judged? What do you think you’re doing to immigrants, Democrats. Hypocrite. Try Matthew 23:35 on for size

      • LFOldTimer

        If the term “anchor babies” makes you climb the walls then “illegal alien” must turn you into a basket case. lol. I don’t subscribe to your politically correct snowflake lexicon. Sorry.

        In an electoral system that doesn’t even require the voter to show his or her ID to confirm identity at the polling place, how difficult would it be for someone to merely CLAIM to be a voter in the district and cast a ballot in his or her place?

        Has the ROV ever contacted you after election day to make sure that it was YOU who actually voted?

        Since most elections have low turnouts it would be incredibly easy to commit voter fraud.

        The system encourages voter fraud with it’s lax security measures.

        The GJ has no idea whether voter fraud occurred. Did the GJ double check each OC voter to confirm that it was the registered voter who actually voted in the last election? No one contacted me.

        California is among the highest taxed states in the nation, broham. Get into the time machine and push fast forward.

        So just because a person supports national autonomy and national sovereignty you equate that to being a Klansman? ??? LOL.

        My my, hey hey. Goofball logic is here to stay.

        • @Dan Chmielewski

          http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-library-congress-alien-20160403-story.html

          and from a 2012 CNN column online: “The term “illegal immigrant” was first used in 1939 as a slur by the British toward Jews who were fleeing the Nazis and entering Palestine without authorization. Holocaust survivor and Nobel Peace Prize winner Elie Wiesel aptly said that “no human being is illegal.”

          You support national autonomy? No. You support bigotry and fake facts. You don’t like California. Move. Idaho awaits; perhaps you can hook up with some Neo-Nazi groups that think as you do.

          • LFOldTimer

            If you don’t like rule of law move to a country where anarchy rules and the borders are wide open.

            Then write us and tell us how you’re doing.

            Okay?

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            well, our president had no trouble hiring undocumented workers from Poland to build real estate holdings in NYC or using undocumented labor at Mar-a-Lago in Florida; didn’t his Labor secretary have to withdraw for hiring an undocumented nanny? Rule of law isn’t your strongest argument here.

          • LFOldTimer

            I’ve been down this road before with another commenter. It was never proven that Trump knowingly hired illegal workers from Poland. We went over the court cases. The final appellate court acknowledged no proof existed that Trump knew anything about illegals working on his site. Hiring and firing is left to underlings. Executive directors of large billion dollar construction projects focus on the big picture. You should know that.

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/oct/20/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-correctly-claims-trump-tower-was-p/

            http://time.com/4465744/donald-trump-undocumented-workers/

            In 1983, union members hired to work on the project sued Trump, a union boss and the contractor for using the undocumented Polish workers to undercut their pensions and welfare funds. The future Republican presidential candidate appeared in court in 1990 and denied knowing that the workers weren’t in the country legally, but a Manhattan judge ended up ruling against Trump and ordered him to pay the workers more than $325,000.

            Trump appealed the case, which dragged on for another decade, before quietly settling out of court in 1999.

            The Republican candidate’s alleged use of undocumented workers has continued even into the current presidential campaign.

            Several construction workers interviewed by the Washington Post in July 2015 said they were hired to help renovate the Old Post Office Pavilion in Washington despite residing in the country illegally. A Trump spokeswoman at the time said his business and contractors followed all applicable immigration laws.

            http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/jul/27/michael-bloomberg/michael-bloomberg-donald-trump-visa-sys/

            Since 2010, nearly 300 U.S. residents applied or were referred for jobs at Mar-A-Lago, but only 17 were hired, the New York Times reported in February. Meanwhile, Mar-A-Lago sought more than 500 visas for foreign workers. (The visas were also sought at some of his other properties.) We don’t know how many people actually used the visas and became employees.

            To obtain the visas, businesses must prove they were unsuccessful at filling positions with Americans or legal residents.

            According to the Florida Department of Economic Opportunity, the resort posted jobs through CareerSource Florida, the local workforce development boards throughout the state.

            A U.S. Labor Department spokesman told PolitiFact Florida previously that 93 people applied for 250 seasonal job openings at the resort. Four were hired, while 79 didn’t answer interview requests or turned down jobs (10 applications were classified with unknown status).

            Documents the resort later filed with the Labor Department showed that many of the American applicants weren’t hired because they didn’t meet requirements. Some applicants didn’t want to work split shifts, lacked experience, wanted full-time jobs instead of part time, or didn’t respond when the resort contacted them.

            After that process, the Labor Department certified 685 H-2B visas for the Mar-A-Lago Club between 2008 and 2015.

            The New York Times asked Trump why he hired so many foreign workers when Americans applied for the same positions.

            “The only reason they wouldn’t get a callback is that they weren’t qualified, for some reason,” Trump replied. “There are very few qualified people during the high season in the area.”

            But some experts question Trump’s assessment that it’s hard to find local help.

            In 2015, CareerSource assisted in placing nearly 1,800 candidates in hospitality jobs in Palm Beach County. But Mar-A-Lago didn’t show much interest in using the free service.

          • LFOldTimer

            Trump paid a fine for his underlings wrongdoings.

            The final appellate court issued it’s ruling that it was not a proven fact that Trump had any hand in hiring the Polish workers.

            Go read the actual ruling.

            The quote you stated was taken out of context and had nothing to do with the Polish workers. Nice try though.

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            The judge ruled against Trump and the case was settled out of court. Please provide a link to the actual ruling. Bet it proves you have reading comprehension issues.

          • LFOldTimer

            I know he ruled against Trump’s company. I told you Trump paid a fine.

            But he did not rule that Trump hired the Polish workers or had any knowledge that the Polish workers were unauthorized to work in the US.

            Stick with the facts.

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            The lawsuit was filed against Trump and the companies he hired to do the work; so Trump’s incompetent for allowing a firm he hired to allow them to use undocumented workers? Your continued defense of Trump here doesn’t hold water for the immigrants Trump hired in Florida. Can we move on to all the contractors Trump has stiffed over the years, including the lawyers he hired to defend him in lawsuits related to not paying contractors?

          • LFOldTimer

            Yes. Ultimately Trump was responsible since his employees or subcontractors hired the wrong people. That’s true. That’s why Trump paid a fine. Duh? But there’s no indication that Trump knew there were unauthorized workers on his project crew. That was my point.

            Trump deals in BILLIONS of corporate dollars. There’s bound to be disputes. That’s what happens in business. Sometimes people disagree. If someone feels “stiffed” he or she has access to remedies to resolve the dispute.

            Obama never had to deal with any of this stuff as a Community Organizer who never hired anyone in his life. Well, maybe he hired the person who cut his grass or washed his car. But that was the extent of it. Trump earned every penny he made.

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            I know the quote has nothing to do with Polish workers; it shows a pattern of Trump using undocumented immigrants to work when American labor was available.

          • verifiedsane

            The sheer lunacy and disingenuous arguments the alt-left bring to the
            table are just absolutely laughable….anytime they don’t have a peg
            leg to stand on…they reach out to antiquated and false WW2 N*zi
            analogies.

            Then, it’s the same old pestiferous name calling of r*cist, big*t, and a related assortment of like terms with their duplicitous and deceitful attacks upon the good law abiding citizens of America, who just happen to have a different opinion
            and may disagree with their far-left cultural Marxist narrative.

            That desperation anchor must be getting pretty heavy around your neck to
            come back here with a kindred mendacious propaganda argument and more
            attacks Danny Boy…Thanks for quoting the Communist News Network (CNN);
            that adds some real f*rcical credibility to your failing cause..

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            The use of the term is not false; CNN is actually a credible network. But thanks for demonstrating contempt for historical tragedy and being dismissive of news outlets who produce stories you don’t like as “fake news.” Just curious, when will Trump present credible evidence of wiretaps in Trump Tower? Or unemployment numbers that say 40% are out of work? Does it bother you that Trump’s played more golf than Tiger Woods in the last month or that taxpayers are paying for his sons to travel and stay in 5 star hotels while they are on business trips for Trump, Inc. in South America and the Middle East? I bet you’re a big InfoWars fan, aren’t you? Facts have a liberal bias. You have nothing to offer.

          • LFOldTimer

            A CNN employee was caught leaking the presidential debate questions to Hillary in advance of the CNN sponsored debate between Hillary and Trump giving her a huge unfair advantage. That’s not credible at all. It’s evil.

            And anytime there’s a roundtable discussion on Trump or his policies at CNN it’s always 5 against 1. lol.

            CNN (Crap News Network) is the closest thing we have to the old Soviet Pravda news agency that operated during the cold war, next to MSNBC.

          • verifiedsane

            Just when I thought Zr. Greg Diamond was about as sleazy, warped, and twisted as the Dumocratic Party got…along comes comrade Chmielewski of the OC Democratic Party Central Committee to prove there are no boundaries to this parties propensity for ignorance, intolerance, lies, misinformation and treachery.

          • LFOldTimer

            With that name it would seem that he would be overjoyed that Trump’s company hired Polish workers.

            Go figure.

          • @Dan Chmielewski

            But Fox news is “fair and balanced.” FactCheck any presidential debate and you’ll see Trump lie dozens of times when Video of him exists contradicting answers given at debates. Fact check Trump statements in general. Truthiness isn’t his friend.

          • LFOldTimer

            Fox News doesn’t illegally leak Presidential debate questions to favored candidates.

            A Fox News reporter (Mehgan Kelly) hammered Trump (unfairly) when Fox sponsored the Presidential debate.

            I wouldn’t call that fair. But it’s certainly balanced.

          • @Dan Chmielewski
  • verifiedsane

    The demographic map is always changing…as does the social pendulum…while the Democrats may be gaining in one, their political extremism and by moving even further left; has them losing those modest gains in the other..this may, or may not work in California…but as was shown and documented in the 2016 election…2018 will continue to prove disastrous for them on a national scale..

  • Paul Lucas

    The problem with thee 2018 election is the fac that there are more than one democrat challenging dana r and darell Issa. I hope that Fran Sdao c an convince one of these candidates to drop out to ensure unity and victory. I cant recall if Royce or Walters have challengers yet. But Mr Levin who jumped into the race to unseat Issa is doing so because of the DNC targeting Issa and Issa being named the most vulnerable Republican in the house. Colonel Applegate can defeat Issa easily. Levin taking the cheap route of the opportunist needs top be sidelined asap.