Five People Ejected From Anaheim City Council Meeting in Fracas Over Trump’s “Muslim Ban”

A member of "We the People Rising" holds a sign, while police officers watch members of the audience closely.

At least five men and women were ejected from a rowdy Anaheim City Council meeting Tuesday for interrupting the public comments of people on both sides of a proposed resolution opposing President Donald J. Trump’s executive order banning immigration from seven Muslim-majority nations.

Four members of the group We the People Rising, an anti-illegal immigration group, who are also supporters of Trump, were ejected for disruptive commentary during public comments. A fifth person, Jeanine Robbins, was ejected for throwing a crumpled speaker card at a member of We the People Rising.

Although the resolution, proposed by Councilman Jose Moreno, was tabled at the start of the meeting, dozens of people gave impassioned speeches for and against it — with many of their comments accompanied by side commentary and shouting from the audience.

The fracas blew up toward the end of public comments, after a man, who only gave his first name, Cyrus, finished his comments defending the ban.

“You can call this indigenous land but that doesn’t mean you have to flood the country with one hundred million of these third world immigrants and we have to subsidize their lifestyle,” Cyrus said, prompting a man from the audience to shout, “Shut up!”

“Escort this man out, he interrupted me!” demanded Cyrus, who had interrupted several previous speakers.

“Hell, you interrupted me,” argued another man in the audience.

Tait quieted the audience and Cyrus finished speaking.

Robbins then tossed a crumpled speaker card at him, prompting outrage from members of We the People Rising, who demanded Robbins be thrown out. When they continued shouting, Tait ordered city police to escort four people out of the chambers.

“Grow up, everybody,” Tait said. “Sit down if you want to stay here sit down. And everybody, shut up except for the speaker.”

Mayor Tom Tait listening as public speakers interrupted each other.

All five people left peacefully but members of We the People Rising spent several minutes loudly questioning police officers outside of the council meeting about why they were ejected.  The group posted a video of their ejection on YouTube. 

Moreno’s resolution would oppose Trump’s Executive Order 13769, which barred entry of travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries (Sudan, Syria, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Libya, and Somalia) for a period of 90 days, and suspended the Syrian refugee program indefinitely.

A federal judge in Hawaii has since halted the travel ban order and the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is set next Month to hear the Trump administration’s appeal.

Moreno tabled the resolution, which was sponsored by the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), so that the language could be “strengthened.”

Mirvette Judeh, who wears a hijab, told the city council Trump’s executive order has affected her daily life.

“When an executive order begins to affect the normal lives of constituents in your city…when someone like me can walk into a place like Costco or Nordstrom and [people] tell me to go back home and call me a terrorist,” Judeh said. “It affects anybody who looks Arab and Muslim, even though the majority of Arabs in America happen to not be Muslim.”

Councilwoman Lucille Kring has also called for a vote, which has yet to be scheduled, on whether the city council supports sanctuary city status.

Kring said she opposes making Anaheim a sanctuary city, although she has not defined the term, which can refer broadly to cities with rules like prohibiting staff from inquiring about a person’s legal status or whose  police departments refuse to hold undocumented immigrants on behalf of federal authorities.

People on both sides, however, rebuked the council for wading into federal issues.

“Has anyone met on security issues with Attorney General Sessions? With the Secretary of Defense? …With the director of the CIA?” asked Janet West, a member of We the People Rising who was ejected from the meeting. “So why do you think you should be voting on a national security issue?”

On the other end of the spectrum, Victoria Michaels, an ardent Moreno supporter, said council meetings have gotten out of hand each time the council has weighed into a federal political issue.

“We should concentrate on city of Anaheim matters and not on federal issues,” Michaels said.

Contact Thy Vo at or follow her on Twitter @thyanhvo. 

  • Ed Romero

    He says to GROW UP. I wish someone in the City of Anaheim would have GROWN UP and did something about that former Chairperson of the O C GOP, former Judge, former Chief Probation Officer and finally former Director of Health that use to Smoke so much Marijuana at her residence in the City of Anaheim that her neighbors would call our Probation Records Unit complaining about all the Marijuana fumes floating over to the houses. I handled one of those calls while on duty and advised them to call the Police and they said WE DID. I finally called my Office Manger to advise her what those Dirty Racist Drug Dealing Lesbians were doing. We had this Asst. Chief Probation Officer that use to Smoke so much Marijuana while on duty that our Main Office Building at night looked like a foggy day in Fresno. The problem was that NO ONE wanted a phone call from the Nixon or Reagan White House.

  • Nogoodhound


  • Nogoodhound

    You are all missing the point, this has nothing to do with immigration. This about 2018 election district 3 and flipping the Balance of power back to Disney. Lucille Kring went on record with Vern Nelson stating she wanted to get Dr. Moreno not the council on record on becoming a sanctuary city. It will be a win for Disney either way Dr. Moreno votes . If Dr Moreno votes no the shiny mailers using a targeted mailing go out to the Hispanic community saying he is a traitor to his heritage. If Dr Moreno votes yes the mailers go to the Conservative Colony saying he wants to flood Anaheim with undocumented immigrants. LOW VERY LOW

    • LFOldTimer

      That’s why they call it politics.

      You’ve gotta pick a side and deal with the fallout.

      Based on all the immigration activists in Anaheim it only makes sense that the city should weigh in on sanctuary cities like Santa Ana has.

      Low very low is putting a resolution on the agenda regarding Trump’s immigration ban that hasn’t even taken effect. Don’t you know that the 9th Circuit shot it down twice?

      So what’s to even argue?

      • Nogoodhound

        Lf I posted my comment on the piece about Kring wanting to get the council on record sanctuary city. The came here and posted my that’s what democracy looks like and both comments ended up here if that makes more sence

        • LFOldTimer

          No. Honestly it doesn’t make any sense, Nogood.

          I expected you to respond to my specific response to you. But you declined.

          Now that does make sense.

  • Mike Robbins

    Jeanine was ejected but the previous speaker called Immigrants “human trash” 2:41 in the video This group is just over the top white supremacists.

    • LFOldTimer

      I don’t approve of his lexicon – but this is America and he certainly has the right to say it. It falls under the category of FREEDOM.

      The article indicated that most of those who were ejected were pro-Trump while the opposing side committed infractions just as bad or worse and were allowed to stay.

      Is Anaheim going Berkeley on us??? lol.

      • Mike Robbins

        yes it gets wild when hate talk outs

        • LFOldTimer

          There’s hate on both sides, Mike.

          Look at all the hate from the left going on at UC Berkeley.

          I’ve seen tremendous hate from the left right here on the VOC board.

          There’s no doubt in my mind that there was enough hate to go around at the Anaheim council meeting from both sides of the aisle. Pointing fingers is silly.

          Just because we don’t like what someone says it give us no right to throw stuff at him, hit him or interrupt him while he’s at the podium at a public meeting. Does it? Everyone gets his 3 minutes. You can talk when it’s your turn too with the expectation that no one will rudely interrupt you.

          This is America, Mike. We don’t live under a monarch. We live under a Constitutional Republic which give us a wide latitude of expression – moreso than any other country that comes to mind. Cherish it, sir. That’s what still makes us one of the greatest nations on earth. Respect it even if you don’t agree with it. The alternative is a living he*l.

          • Mike Robbins

            If you had been there they were yelling at us waving hate signs and many were yelling at them. My wife crumpled up a little piece of note paper 4″x2″ and threw it to the ground but he was still right behind her when she turned around. If you watch the video I jumped up and stood between them. Notice I had my hands behind my back to be completely non confrontational. I also figured I would take any blows thrown, in after thought at my age I cannot absorb blows like I used too!!! It was both ways and that is the way it is at every meeting. Hatred even from our friends is usually boood.

          • LFOldTimer

            But I would never go. That’s the difference between you and me.

            I tend to believe that both sides are equally to blame.

            Nobody is that room was innocent. Particularly the ones sitting at the dais. They were the most un-innocent.

          • Mike Robbins

            Some people are engaged and some talk about being engaged. It is hard work to be engaged whether it is getting new books for schools, more money for after school programs, saving trees and historical property (I am a tree hugger) getting involved in the election process win or lose, working for my neighbors, or whatever you can talk us into. We will be up at 6 am for the project. Of course my business suffers. But do we all get up just to go to work?

          • LFOldTimer

            Personally I couldn’t care less what happens in Anaheim. It’s not part of my world. But I do have opinions on the idiocy that goes on there. To me, it’s entertainment. Better than reading the comics.

            I commend you for your civic involvement. Most of us are civically involved in one way or another. But we don’t feel compelled to advertise it.

            So you’re saying that some say things at the speaker’s podium “for show” and it’s not their true feelings?

            That makes them phony and void of credibility.

            To each his own.

          • Mike Robbins

            Some do it to make the council members uncomfortable with their choices and their money sources. Others might do it for the press quote. Most speak from their hearts to move the council to make choices for the people not the corporate sponsors like Disney.

          • LFOldTimer

            Hopefully you call those phony people out. Particularly the players on your home team.

          • Mike Robbins

            Never, that is like pointing out the real character of an actor playing a part. Like stopping in the middle of Lawrence of Arabia and saying to the camera Jose Ferrer is only pretending to be bad!
            We all have our part to play.
            I do try to step out of the mold. Stick to character.

          • LFOldTimer

            Oh, so you turn a blind eye?


            To each his own.

          • Mike Robbins

            Playing the bad guy can bring items to a head. Playing the bad guy or gal can turn heads on the council and make them very uncomfortable. When those playing the part strike with venom you can see certain council people squirm.

            To those in the know we do not play the part as that is our part, but take pleasure in the bad guy’s persona.

            I have played the bad guy at the OC Board of supervisors as I ranted about the homeless deaths in Orange County.


            And then I played the nice negotiator which is the real me I think, the guy that wants to be friends and get things done. When made aware of the real complexity of the city or county I can’t even comprehend those that try to work on the state and country level.

  • LFOldTimer

    It appears that Moreno is trying to use the Anaheim council meetings for his own political expediency by bringing up these off-the-wall topics for discussion.

    It’s a waste of time and only causes division and hard feelings. Pretty stupid. When are rational-minded people in the community going to tell him to cut it out?

    I noticed that the regulars from Anaheim aren’t weighing in on this article. Is it that embarrassing?

    Come on, Moreno. Shape up. Stop being a provocateur and troublemaker.

    • Mike Robbins

      Sometimes we need to bring in the world to the discussion. After all we are part of the world too not just Anaheim.

      • LFOldTimer

        Anaheim needs to focus on Anaheim. The City has major problems. Once you solve your problems you can branch out on a global scale and solve the world’s problems.

        One step at a time, Mike. 🙂

        • Mike Robbins

          So where do we get the grant money for the schools and other infrastructure projects. Did you notice the big battle about sanctuary cities and the money that will be taken away from the cities?

          • verifiedsane

            Follow the law, or pay the price; aka grant money 🙂 The Supreme Court will overrule these temporary politically inspired circuit court rulings…The legal precedent in already set in the high court for executive authority… As I like to say…elections do have consequences…

      • verifiedsane

        We have a Congress, Executive branch, and State Department to debate & handle international policy & issues….The Anaheim city counsel needs to deal with the many problems in their own back yard….or they should step down, and run for a different political office…

        • Mike Robbins

          Everything done in Washington and Sacramento has an impact on us on the council and the money they have for everything in infrastructure. Not to mention laws.

          • verifiedsane

            And your point?… your plan to have city councils determine national and foreign policy…That’s really just laughable…local politicians need to stick to local jurisdictions. Heck, it appears they are not even doing a very good job at the local levels…

  • kburgoyne

    Insofar as a federal issue impacts the residents of a city, to claim the city should not weigh-in on it is fallacious.

    • LFOldTimer

      To say that the cities or states should defy Federal immigration laws when they provide cooperation and even form integrated task forces comprised of a combination of Federal, state and local officers to uniformly combat all other criminal activities that defy Federal law, is fallacious as well.

      But no one wants to talk about that. lol.

      • LFOldTimer

        Looks like I lost him.

        • Mike Robbins

          So any way, nice argument tonight see ya soon.
          Sleep tight.

          • LFOldTimer

            Thanks, Mike.

            You’re living proof that 2 people can disagree and not get into a written shouting match.

            It was my pleasure.

          • Mike Robbins


          • LFOldTimer

            I bet you’re really a nice guy, Mike.

            You just have to play a certain role for the audience.

            Have a wonderful day.

          • verifiedsane

            That comment just displays your lack of maturity and intellect Robbins, nice job cupcake…. 🙂

          • Mike Robbins


  • LFOldTimer

    I’m disturbed that there seemed to be selective enforcement of the City of Anaheim’s council meeting conduct ordinances.

    Our nation was FOUNDED upon the principle of “equality under the law” which is the backbone of our justice system.

    When our own government officials violate that sacred principle and give preference to one group over another when it comes to black letter law – it is a VERY dangerous slippery slope that places our democracy in grave danger.

    This should be closely examined after the fact and those who dared apply selective enforcement of the law should be admonished and disciplined to protect the cherished traditions of our beloved country.

    This is a call for a retrospective analysis. An honest one. Our liberty is contingent upon truth and integrity. Those who believe in true freedom take one step forward.

    • Mike Robbins

      So is it OK for the KKK to come to Anaheim – free speech?
      This whole thing is so problematic but this is freedom of speech and Tom Tait did his best to protect it. One problem is that with the lights in their eyes and the council people can barely see what is happening in the audience. So Tom for instance could not see who the people were that were yelling out or causing problems.
      The KKK rally – mistakes were made but in actuality very little happened considering.
      Where and when do people get passionate?
      South Korean fight in Parliament!
      It is time now to get passionate in the city, county, state and country.

      • LFOldTimer

        Oh, it was the lights that were the problem at the Council meeting, eh??? ha. Those darn lights in the eyes. That’ll do it every time. Good one.

        Nothing happened at the KKK rally? People were stabbed and viciously assaulted. That’s “very little”? hah.

        • Mike Robbins

          I sell at the OC Fair every year and there is not a night at the Fair when there is not a drunken brawl. And that is supposed to be fun!
          So the guy is getting beat up 10 feet from my booth and my daughter and I run over to stop it – yeah I am nuts – and the guy is down on the ground with people punching him. We break it up and step back when this other guy runs up and kicks the guy on the ground in the head blood spattering everywhere. Cleaning the blood off was icky..
          Another year it was a girl fight near my booth.
          Fun times at the OC Fair – bad times at the KKK rally.

      • verifiedsane

        Our Constitution protects free speech for every citizen (even speech you or I may find disgusting). That includes the KKK, BLM, and others, all the way to the boys & girls scouts….you may not like it….but that is America….This is why anarchist actions at places like Berkeley should disturb everyone who calls themselves American. These attempts to curtail different free speech view points and ideals with violence & intimidation flies in the face of our treasured principles as a nation and our Constitution.

        • Mike Robbins

          You might like to let the KKK speak but you can have 10 times the numbers to show that the majority are not part of their thinking. Berkeley is a corner stone of free speech but they can rally against evil.

          • verifiedsane

            That was pure unadulterated horse manure Robbins; that’s exactly what the anarchist spew…”phony tolerance by intolerance”…the ludicrous hypocrisy would be absolutely hysterical, if wasn’t sparking the dangerous candle of insurrection and violence. Do you want a civil war?….go read some history about the last one we had…be very careful what you wish for…..

          • Mike Robbins

            Look, the brown shirts have a right to march in America. But we must show that they are outnumbered 10 to one or 100 to one lest they think for a moment that they have the upper hand. History is right.
            We had a civil war in my life time, it was because of the Vietnam war and civil rights.

          • verifiedsane

            They are already outnumbered far more than 100 to 1….let the haters speak, who ever they are….no one has to listen…free speech isn’t harming anything except civility and personal sensitivities…

            The 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s was not a civil war…that was a civil rights movement….go back in history to Apr 12, 1861 – May 9, 1865, and read about how horrific and devastating real civil war can be…our course world history has lots of examples to provide us also…

          • Mike Robbins

            They had a different value on life back then. As human beings we have advanced that much at least, I think…
            As the news holds today 2 of our guys got killed in Iraq and everyone goes higeldy pigeldy about it and that is good.

          • verifiedsane

            Advanced!! I’m LMAO………human nature hasn’t changed one iota. In fact, with instant mass media and the internet 24/7, modern civilization has become so desensitized to the constant inhumane atrocities through means of over saturation and apathy, we may have actually regressed as a species.

            quote: “Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”

  • LFOldTimer

    At the risk of being erroneously name-called a “racist”, a “bigot” or other such nonsense, as an American who answered the call of duty by his nation, I choose to stand behind American sovereignty and the right to protect our citizens (and legal immigrants) from outside terrorist attacks.

    The large majority of terrorist attacks on America since 911 have been instigated by ME terrorists. That’s just a fact. 911 was the defining moment (prior to our stupid decision to invade Iraq and meddle militarily in the ME). That was the first major shot across the now. And it was perpetrated by 19 ME terrorists – most of whom were Saudi citizens. I have no idea what their religion happened to be. Nor do I really care. All I know is that we lost 3,000 innocent citizens who died for simply going to work in the morning. And it demanded some sort of response.

    Now to be perfectly honest and objective, I fully agree that we stirred up a hornet’s nest in the ME that would have much better been left alone. But regardless, we have an obligation to protect our own people who live inside our sovereign borders.

    This is not a matter of race, nor is it a matter of religion in my humble opinion. It is a matter of geographical and geopolitical tension among NATIONS.

    Just as if the guy across the street started throwing stones at your home. Would his color or religion matter? No. All that matters is that he throws stones at your home and you must take defensive action against him to protect your property and your family.

    Think Orlando. Think San Bernardino, Think New York City (multiple). Think Boston Marathon. Think Little Rock. Think Garland, Tx. Think Foot Hood, Tx. Think Chattanooga. Think Ohio State University. I could go on an on an on.

    The safety of the American people comes before all else. Foreigners who aren’t awarded visas or other legal documents have no more ‘right’ to step foot on US soil than I have a right to step on theirs. Being allowed to step on US soil is a privilege and a gift. Not a ‘right’. Those who do not recognize this fact are simply ignorant of the way national sovereignty works ACROSS THE GLOBE. Not just in America.

    We must take the UTMOST precautions to promote the safety of America while we make modifications to our immigration policies to patch the gaps that have allowed terrorists to murder THOUSANDS of our citizens.

    I’m a red-blooded American. And I made no apology for it. My people (Americans) come first, regardless of their color, religious affiliation, creed, political ideologies, gender, or s*xual preference. I was ALWAYS taught to take care of my own. And I will take that deeply held belief to the grave with me.

    If you can’t accept that belief, that’s your problem. Not mine.

    • kburgoyne

      “most of whom were Saudi citizens” — Yet, what is one of the nations not on the ban list? Such things lead to questions about what the ban is really about.

      • LFOldTimer

        You’d have to ask OBAMA about that. He’s the one that coined the 7 nations on the ban list as “HIGH-RISK”. Trump merely followed his lead.

        Is that the only objection you have to my lengthy comment?

        If so, thanks for your support.

        • Mike Robbins

          curious why Obama did not BAN travel from Saudi Arabia. Curious why Bush did not also.

          • LFOldTimer

            Probably because there were deep in the Saudi pockets.

            But just because they didn’t ban Saudi that’s no reason to turn a blind eye to the other terrorist nations. Is it???

            Or do you want full open borders for all Middle Easterners who want to come to America?

            Do you realize that they have travel restrictions on Americans entering their nations?

          • Mike Robbins

            Yes cause Saudi is crazy place…
            Try entering a real free country except Canada of course our real enemy.

          • verifiedsane

            Oh Yes, Canada has developed a secret ICBM war head capable of delivering multiple hockey sticks in one decisive blow. These deadly missiles are aimed directly at every major US urban center to cause devastating destruction and maximum death tolls….God almighty, the tremendous fear we all must we live under, Eh!

          • Mike Robbins

            Scarry huh? Almost like South Korea is under the threat of death…
            Have you ever been hit by a hockey stick?

          • justanon

            Why hasn’t trump banned Saudi’s and Pakistani’s from entering the country, after all he is POTUS now???

          • LFOldTimer

            Because of the precedent that Obama has set.

            It’s really hard to untie the quagmire that Obama created. We’re talking international politics here.

            Trump is trying to make us LESS dependent on the ME oil (Hint: Canadian Keystone Pipeline)

            So you can thank your HERO OBAMA for setting the tone that put us behind the 8 ball.

            Trump has been in office for a little over 100 days.

            Obama was in office for 8 years.

            Point your finger in the right direction.

            Any more questions?

          • justanon

            The Keystone Pipeline, that Canadian oil is going to China:

            “Once again, Verleger is arguing that the United States cannot escape the reality of living in a global oil market. Getting Canadian oil to the Texas Gulf Coast would put it onto ships bound for Asia, he predicted. He calls it a “Tar Sands Road to China,” a play on the famous Silk Road that moved Asian goods to Western markets for 3,000 years. Although it’s a long, tortuous route to ship oil through the Gulf of Mexico and around Africa’s Cape of Good Hope or South America’s Cape Horn, economics will favor this journey to the Far East, he contends. The bottom line for Verleger is that refineries on the Gulf Coast have long-term commitments to buy oil from current suppliers—including Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Mexico. Those nations don’t want to cede market share to Canada. All three have ownership in Texas refineries, and they can also match any discount that comes with the Canadian crude. “There will be too much oil, it’s got to go somewhere, and it’s going to China,” Verleger says.”

          • LFOldTimer

            Verleger??? ha. Odds are 10 to 1 that he voted for Hillary.

            For his one opinion I can find a dozen experts with a google search that believe the Keystone Pipeline will create thousands of new US jobs, provide more cheap fuel for US cars and reduce US dependency on ME oil, which can only serve the best interests of America.

            Verleger??? meh…..

          • justanon

            They “believe” that the Keystone Pipeline will create “thousands of new US jobs”, just proves what a GULLIBLE CHUMP YOU ARE!!! LOL!

            “A State Department report on the pipeline that was issued under the Obama administration found that there would be 3,900 direct construction jobs if it was built over one year, or 1,950 if the work was spread over two years.

            Once the pipeline opens it would require only 35 full-time permanent jobs to run it, and 15 full-time temporary jobs, according to the state department report. TransCanada, the company seeking to build the pipeline, does not dispute those numbers.”


          • LFOldTimer

            “They “believe” that the Keystone Pipeline will create “thousands of new
            US jobs”, just proves what a GULLIBLE CHUMP YOU ARE!!! LOL!”

            So if they need to construct and operate the new KEYSTONE PIPELINE would Jesus Christ return to earth and do it with a snap of his fingers? Or would human beings do it??? Your logic is really something to write home to mom about!!! LOL!!!

            Even your quote from CNN (which is an enemy of the Keystone Pipeline and no one can believe their fake news or their math) shows that the Pipeline would create THOUSANDS of jobs. lol. So now you’re contradicting yourself.

            Go take a break. Our discussion seems to be wearing you down. Go eat a snowflake cone. LOL!

          • justanon

            For a couple of years we’d get a few thousand jobs in exchange for eminent domain takings across thousands of acres of land all for a foreign government and private gain.

            “The pipeline “is simply a for-profit venture, and they’re asking landowners to accommodate that,” she said. “There’s no compelling reason whatsoever any of us would want this to go through our land, our state…. There is no benefit to our personal property or our state.”


          • LFOldTimer

            Now you’ve changed the entire discussion – that the Keystone Pipeline would provide THOUSANDS of jobs, fuel for our cars and LESSER dependency on ME oil!!!!

            You lost that debate so now you spin it in another direction…….


          • justanon

            Not thousands of permanent jobs and permanent jobs are what’s important and if the oil is sold to China how exactly does that “fuel” american cars???

            There is no guarantee that the oil for the Keystone Pipeline will be for the US consumers benefit, the number of permanent jobs is nil and the pipeline spill risk and the eminent domain takings all for PRIVATE PROFIT are … HUGE!!!

            How does any ‘loyal’ american justify this BS?

            If this were a local government issue, you’d be ALL OVER the ABUSE of government power for private gain, but because this is a right-wing hot button issue, suddenly it’s … see-no-evil, speak-no-evil, hear-no-evil, lol.

            Don’t worry though, you’re still a CONSISTENT hypocrite!

          • LFOldTimer

            If your going to quote Verleger’s opinion you might as well quote Grimms. lol.

            Of course there was precedent. OBAMA created the 7 most dangerous terrorist nations. Trump merely DID SOMETHING to protect our nation from these MOST DANGEROUS terrorist nations that OBAMA created.

            Now read that 10 times and let it digest.

          • justanon

            You obviously don’t even understand the meaning of the word “precedent”. Just how ignorant and uneducated are you?
            If the courts had found a legal “precedent” for trump’s order they would have upheld it, what Obama had done was in no way related to trump’s ban, so there was NO PRECEDENT!

          • LFOldTimer

            The deceitful 9th Circuit rules based on ideology rather than the law. This is the reason they have the WORST record of all the Judicial Circuits in getting their decisions slapped down. Intelligent people disregard decisions from the 9th Circuit until they’ve been vetted by the higher court.

            The 9th Circuit is saturated with liberal Trump haters like yourself who flap their biased gums to push agendas. All one has to do to figure that out is to read your comments. lol.

          • justanon

            “And OBAMA banned immigration for all Iraqis to the US.”

            PROVE IT LIAR, I DARE YOU!!! LOL!!!

          • LFOldTimer


            Don’t fall to pieces, snowflake.

            It’s been news for YEARS that OBAMA banned immigrants from Iraq.

            Just because YOU deny it doesn’t make it any less true!!!! lol

            Pull your head out and take a deep breath of O2. Then reinsert. lol.

            Buh Bye!

          • justanon

            Can’t prove it can you old bigot????

            YOU are the biggest FRAUD and LIAR on this site.

            So I will once again FACT CHECK YOUR IGNORANT, LYING BULL SH*T!
            READ IT AND WEEP, LIAR!!!!!

            Sorry, Mr. President: The Obama Administration Did Nothing Similar to Your Immigration Ban

            1. Much narrower focus. The Obama administration conducted a review in 2011 of the vetting procedures applied to citizens of a single country (Iraq) and then only to refugees and applicants for Special Immigrant Visas (SIVs), created by Congress to help Iraqis (and later Afghans) who supported the United States in those conflicts. The Trump executive order, on the other hand, applies to seven countries with total population more than 130 million and to virtually every category of immigrant other than diplomats, including tourists and business travelers.

            2. Not a ban. Contrary to Trump’s Sunday statement and the repeated claims of his defenders, the Obama administration did not “ban visas for refugees from Iraq for six months.” For one thing, refugees don’t travel on visas. More importantly, while the flow of Iraqi refugees slowed significantly during the Obama administration’s review, refugees continued to be admitted to the United States during that time, and there was not a single month in which no Iraqis arrived here. In other words, while there were delays in processing, there was no outright ban.

            3. Grounded in specific threat. The Obama administration’s 2011 review came in response to specific threat information, including the arrest in Kentucky of two Iraqi refugees, still the only terrorism-related arrests out of about 130,000 Iraqi refugees and SIV holders admitted to the United States. Thus far, the Trump administration has provided no evidence, nor even asserted, that any specific information or intelligence led to its draconian order.

            4. Orderly, organized process. The Obama administration’s review was conducted over roughly a dozen deputies and principals committee meetings, involving cabinet and deputy cabinet-level officials from all of the relevant departments and agencies — including the State, Homeland Security, and Justice departments — and the intelligence community. The Trump executive order was reportedly drafted by White House political officials and then presented to the implementing agencies a fait accompli. This is not just bad policymaking practice; it led directly to the confusion, bordering on chaos, that has attended implementation of the order by agencies that could only start asking questions (such as: “Does this apply to green card holders?”) once the train had left the station.

            5. Far stronger vetting today. Much has been made of Trump’s call for “extreme vetting” for citizens of certain countries. The entire purpose of the Obama administration’s 2011 review was to enhance the already stringent vetting to which refugees and SIV applicants were subjected. While many of the details are classified, those rigorous procedures, which lead to waiting times of 18-24 months for many Iraqi and Syrian refugees, remain in place today and are continually reviewed by interagency officials. The Trump administration is, therefore, taking on a problem that has already been (and is continually being) addressed.


          • verifiedsane

            Because in the real world…sometimes the enemy of your enemy has to be called a (whether they truly are or not) friend…even if these leaves a bitter taste and works against our better principles…there hasn’t been a President in the 20th and 21st century (from either party) that hasn’t gotten in bed with some unseemly characters to oppose an even worse and dangerous character. That’s just the way the world spins….

          • justanon

            Well, if we were going to BAN people from Saudi Arabia it should have happened under GW Bush as 9-11 happened on his watch, although if you listen to right-wing ‘news’ you probably would blame Obama for that too. LOL!

            Obama never ‘banned’ everyone from an entire country. That kind of unlawful BS is under the purvue of right-wing nuts like trump.

          • verifiedsane

            It’s not unlawful! Just more Leftist fantasy shared by justanon the know nothing communist provocateur…next time read some history before making idiotic attack statements Diaper boy, instead of the constant whaa whaa whaa….

          • LFOldTimer

            OBAMA BANNED EVERYONE FROM IRAQ after we blew their nation to smithereens. That shows you the moral code that OBAMA lives by!!!! LOL!

            Yet he wants to open the door to 100’s of thousands of Syrians!!!! LOL!

            Unlawful? You should author fairy tales. I bet you’d be a best seller on the NY TImes list! LOL!

          • justanon


            Where did you get that info? Back it up, I dare you!

          • LFOldTimer

            An easily accessible fact. I am not your lackey. Find it yourself.

            I’m done with you.

            Go chase your own tail.


          • justanon

            In other words you swallowed some right-wing horse sh*t and are UNABLE to defend it because IT IS NOT TRUE!!!

            You have no shame, but more importantly you have NO CREDIBILITY! LOL!!!

          • verifiedsane

            Money, international political horse trading, and oil….

    • justanon

      There is no comparison between Obama’s listing those seven countries as “high risk”and trump’s outright ban on immigration from seven countries. Obama was trying to identify possible radicalization, not single-out citizens and sought to keep the focus on travel, not nationality. Trump took the opposite approach, focusing solely on a person’s nationality.

      Furthermore, all those terrorist attacks you mentioned none of them came from trump’s seven ‘banned’ countries.

      “The Government has pointed to no evidence that any alien from any of the countries named in the Order has perpetrated a terrorist attack in the United States,” the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said.”

      If you want to be taken seriously stop trying to blame Obama for trump’s FAILURE’S! It reeks of that partisan bullsh*t that you ‘claim’ to be ‘immune’ from, lol!

      • LFOldTimer

        Of course there’s a link. The ban was implemented on those 7 nations because OBAMA named them “HIGH-RISK”.

        Have you ever taken a stats class before? There are about 200 nations in the world. What are the chances statistically that Trump would just by coincidence place OBAMA’S 7 high-risk nations on his immigration ban if it wasn’t done for that express purpose? Infinitesimal. So your claim that there was no connection is ridiculously absurd.

        Oh yes they did. The State department has terrorists on record who came from those 7 nations who either committed terrorist acts in America or conspired to commit such acts. Go do your research. You need to hone up on those skills. Factcheck is a liberal website that pushes socialist and globalist agendas. Sorry. It’s not accepted as a proof source here.

        Many dangerous terrorists on our watch lists are from those countries. Why else would your HERO OBAMA designate them as “HIGH-RISK TERRORIST NATIONS”?

        Please, use your common sense.

        Thank you for your input, even if it was non-applicable and a distraction from our discussion.

        • Mike Robbins

          Dec 30, 2016 – With more than 290 people killed in the city this year, homicides also …. shows an 11% rise in the city of Los Angeles between January 2016 …
          We need to build a wall around Los Angeles…

          • LFOldTimer

            No. We just need to toss the jerks who perpetrate the violence in jail and throw those illegal alien criminals who violate state and Federal law out of the country.

            Don’t make this complicated. We only need a wall on the border.

          • Mike Robbins

            But in Chicago it is people that have been here for 300 years.
            And California was taken from the Spanish.

          • LFOldTimer

            “And California was taken from the Spanish.”

            OMG. Are you common core educated by chance?

        • justanon

          But Obama NEVER “banned” them, the PROBLEM was trump’s NEEDLESS OVERREACH!!!
          That’s why his ‘ban’ was overturned in the courts and why trump continues to FAIL!!!
          His policies so far have had NOTHING to do with ‘keeping us safe’ and EVERYTHING to do with ‘throwing red meat’ to his racist and reactionary base.

          • LFOldTimer

            Because Obama didn’t have the heuvos to pull the trigger.

            Trump did.

            There’s your difference.

            One was a man. The other was a child.

            The ban was overturned because we have dyed in the wool liberal collectivist judges in the 9th Circuit who exceed their authority and legislate from the bench. They’re tyrants.

            Trump will deal with them in due time.

          • justanon

            Why would that be relevant? Obama is no longer POTUS, trump is. Why is Obama’s seven nation list restraining trump from expanding it to other countries who’s citizens have attacked us?

            “One was a man. The other was a child.”

            Yeah, Obama is a man and trump is a big fat, blubbering, man-baby who is only fooling the rubes.

            How’s all his “deal-making” prowess working out for you??? I think we can all conclude that he KNOWS HOW TO FOLD, ha, ha, ha!!!!

          • LFOldTimer

            What do you mean”why would that be relevant? Obama is no longer POTUS…”.

            When a former person was in charge for EIGHT YEARS and a new CEO or President comes on board (about 100 days) it takes time to make changes. This is not a 6-employee mom and pop’s convenience store. It’s a multi- trillion dollar operation. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to work in such a complicated bureaucracy and make big changes? ha. Your simple thinking is just another reason I don’t place credibility in your opinions. 🙂

          • justanon

            He OBVIOUSLY MADE CHANGES to Obama’s original order didn’t he?

            Obama DID NOT put on a blanket ban, trump did that and then he was too lazy and ignorant to find out whether it was constitutional. But when you’re LOSING just blame the black guy, lol!!!

          • LFOldTimer

            “But when you’re LOSING just blame the black guy, lol!!!”

            Oh, so now you’re bringing ‘race’ into the discussion. That must make you a ‘racist’ that you love to name-call other people. lol.

            OBAMA created the 7 most dangerous terrorist nations list. Why wouldn’t we protect ourselves against such nations? Are you anti-American or something? Maybe you would be happier living over there.

            Trump is fighting globalists (like Hillary and OBAMA) and the majority in Congress (RINOS and Dummycrats) who have been bought off by globalists and special interests who hate America.

            Therefore, changes come slow. But your simpleton style of thinking can’t connect those dots. You expect ONE MAN to change a TRILLION DOLLAR BUREAUCRACY in 100 days. LOL.

            Go play four-square with the kids. People who could relate to you.

          • justanon

            You’re completely off-base as usual, sigh … you can continue to PRETEND that Obama’s ‘high-risk’ list is somehow related to trump’s BAN, but it is not born out by the FACTS.

            Unfortunately for the VOC readers, FACTS don’t matter to you. All that matters to you and the other chumps who support trump is sliming Obama and covering up for trump’s massive FAILURE as POTUS.

            For all your pissing and moaning about Obama’s executive orders at least he had them vetted for legality, trump on the other hand didn’t care how poorly written or researched his executive orders are and yet, you embrace trump’s executive orders (as that’s ALL he has to show for his 100 days in office). You are just a hypocrite and a delusional hypocrite at that.

          • LFOldTimer

            Now “politicfact”? HAH! Factcheck’s sister??? HAH!

            You’re a real knee-slapper!

            And stop referring to OBAMA as the black guy. That’s racist.

            OBAMA is a fraud. And you worship the ground he walks on!!!! HAH

          • justanon

            “Fake news” is all you trump supporters are left hiding behind.

            Court records = FAKE!
            Transcripts = FAKE!
            Data = FAKE!
            Actual recorded events = FAKE!

            Only trump’s lying is REAL, you’re as mentally ill and delusional as he is.
            I fear for the future of this country.

          • LFOldTimer

            Why don’t you go apply for a reporter job at ThinkProgress. I bet you would climb the ladder quickly. You could probably run the joint. lol.

            I’m done playing with you.

            Go chase your tail.

          • justanon

            I always know when I’ve ‘bested’ you by your stupid “Go chase your tail” comment. Thanks for being so transparent!

        • justanon

          “Thank you for your input, even if it was non-applicable and a distraction from our discussion.”

          My “input” was based on YOUR accusations against Obama.
          Your continued LACK of self-awareness and complete cognitive dissonance never fails to amaze and amuse, lol!

          • LFOldTimer

            Not “accusations”. FACTS, dearie. Face the FACTS.

          • justanon

            You wouldn’t recognize a “fact” if it bit you in your racist, old *ss, lol!

          • LFOldTimer

            I see you’re shaking your rattlers again after I one-upped you!!!


          • justanon

            “One -upped” me how?

            You make statements you can’t back up and when you’re called out on them PRETEND you didn’t make them. I will admit arguing with you is difficult because you are such a blatant and unabashed hypocrite and liar.

            You have no honor.

          • LFOldTimer

            I’m not going to rehash what we’ve already debated and where you ended up on the losing end. I refuse to do research for you any longer. Go hire a office lackey for $8 an hour. Maybe you can find someone who can speak and write in English!!! lol.

            “You have no honor”.

            OMG. Talk about a 16 ton pot calling the kettle black!!! LOL!!!

          • justanon

            You’ve never done “research” in your life! What you ‘specialize’ in is regurgitating right-wing BS without once fact-checking your information.
            That’s why you’re always left with your pants down and dependent upon your lickspittle sidekick to defend you and “like” all your ignorant comments.

      • LFOldTimer

        Here. I did you a favor. I conducted a quick cursory search and found over a dozen articles that substantiate the danger of terrorism that emanates from the 7 banned nations. Here’s just one:

        “Since 9/11, 72 individuals from the seven mostly Muslim countries covered by President Trump’s “extreme vetting” executive order have been convicted of terrorism, bolstering the administration’s immigration ban.”

        Now don’t expect me to do all your research for you. You have to learn to do it yourself. I did this one out of courtesy to reach across the aisle.

        Try to be considerate like that once in awhile. It might become a habit. But I realize it’s a long shot.

        • Mike Robbins

          Across the city, 586 people have been shot — one fewer than during the same period in 2015.
          Overall crime is up in L.A. for the second straight year, LAPD reports
          15 years stats
          U.S. deaths in Chicago = 8,384 vs. the war-zones of Afghanistan & Iraq = 6,778 the soldiers were safer than the people in Chicago.
          No one kills like an American

          • LFOldTimer

            And Americans go to jail for killing.

            Illegal aliens also commit many crimes. The first crime being entering our country illegally. We are not an anomaly, Mike. We have borders like all other nations. Do you get out and travel much?

          • Mike Robbins

            We all know who the real enemy is ….Canada

        • justanon

          Do you EVER read BEYOND the headlines???

          Most — 44 of the 72 people — were not convicted on terrorism charges. Many were swept up in terrorism investigations, but investigators failed to provide evidence of terrorism-related crimes. Prosecutors instead filed fraud, immigration and other lesser charges. One of the 44 had his conviction overturned on appeal.

          More than a third — 28 of the 72 — were convicted of terrorism crimes or pleaded guilty to terrorism-related activity. The vast majority of these people were convicted of helping to finance terrorism outside the U.S. Only three of the 28 were convicted of plotting acts of terrorism on U.S. soil, and two of them were sting operations.

          Four of the 72 were arrested in foreign countries and extradited to the United States for prosecution. Three of the four were convicted on terrorism charges. None of the four would have been blocked by Trump’s travel ban, since they were not attempting to enter the U.S. In fact, three of the four, including a Dutch citizen, were arrested in countries (Spain, Romania and the Netherlands) that were not covered
          by the travel ban.

          None of the 72 people was responsible for any terrorist-related deaths in the U.S. — even though roughly 1 million citizens of the seven countries came to the U.S. during this time as refugees, immigrants or on nonimmigrant visas, according to our review of State Department data.

          • LFOldTimer

            Fact check??? HAH!

            You might as well quote the Huffington Post. HAH!

            Save it for the idiots.

          • justanon

            Yeah, those pesky facts … so inconvenient for you right-wingers living in your alternate reality. LOL!

          • LFOldTimer

            More fuzzy facts, eh???

            You’re hilarious. Keep the comedy coming. Do standup somewhere. I woudn’t pay to get in to watch, but might show up if somebody comped me just to laugh at you. Not with you. LOL!

          • justanon

            Yeah, COURT RECORDS = “fuzzy facts”.
            Only in America where right-wing lunacy reigns supreme.

          • LFOldTimer

            I remind you that the GOP took the HOUSE, the SENATE and the WHITE HOUSE because the dummycrats are incompetent buffoons who specialize in digging holes. LOL!

            Don’t blame the GOP. Blame your fellow dummycrats!!! 🙂

          • justanon

            Well, that’s quite the non-sequitur. In real word speak that means you’ve got NOTHING! Ha, ha, ha … you lose, again!

          • LFOldTimer

            I’ve got nothing by reminding you that the dummycrats were COMPLETELY shut out of majorities in both Congressional houses and locked out of the White House. In the meantime, you trash talk the GOP??? HAH!

            Keep commenting. This is better than SNL. You’re funnier than Gildna Radner!!! LOL!!!

          • justanon

            Just how out-of-touch are you old man???

            “Gildna Radner” actually Gilda Radner left SNL in 1980 and has been dead since 1989, but way to stay current. You are hilarious, thanks for being the VOC ‘comic relief’, lol!!!

          • LFOldTimer

            Duh? Like we didn’t know. Thanks for the Breaking News, you silly goose.

            Just because she’s dead doesn’t mean she wasn’t funny when she was alive.

            Your comments rival her knee-slapping humor….but not quite in the same way. But still knee-slapping funny. lol.

            Perhaps your humor is more like Pee-Wee Herman’s humor. But funny is still funny. lol.

          • justanon

            Or not, as in your case.

      • verifiedsane
        • LFOldTimer

          Judges are legislating from the bench today to sabotage anything Trump wants.

          Obama could block specific foreigners from ME nations from entering the US. So could Bush. So could Carter. No protests. No court interventions. Trump tries it and is called for an immediate foul. LOL!

          Same with sanctuary cities. So now our President who has the direct responsibility to ensure our laws get enforced can’t punish those cities that DEFY Federal law and release illegal aliens convicted of state crimes and who have been previously deported by orders of the court back into the American neighborhoods to perpetrate more crime on our citizens.

          This is so bizarre. Where is Rod Serling? “Welcome. You’ve entered the Twilight Zone”. ha.

          • Mike Robbins

            The 9th circuit court judges were appointed by Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Bush sr, Clinton, Bush jr and Obama. You can’t call them bias.

          • LFOldTimer

            Mostly appointed by liberals.

            That’s they the 9th Circuit legislates from the bench and oftentimes gets their decisions slapped down.

            Give a liberal a little power and watch out. Katy bar the doors!

          • Mike Robbins

            But I just said that they were appointed by a complete selection of presidents conservative and liberal just like it should be.

          • LFOldTimer

            But the liberals appointed many more than the conservatives did.

            That’s the reason the 9th Circuit is saturated with liberals.

            Do you think the conservatives would appoint a bunch of liberals?

    • Mike Robbins

      Yes we created chaos in the middle East. There are many legitimate refugees that should seek asylum here in this great nation.
      We are not just the USA but the world too. We live on planet earth and most presidents understand this I think even Trump.
      But in my opinion since about 99.99999% of the deaths in the USA are attributed to Americans we need to lighten up on the immigrants.
      762 homicides in Chicago 2016
      No one kills like a good old American!

      • LFOldTimer

        Every nation on earth has borders, Mike. You can’t name one that doesn’t. Borders have existed for a reason since the dawn of man. Ever heard of “national sovereignty” before? Look it up. Welcome to Planet Earth.

        Of course Americans kill. This is America, after all. Most people who live in America are Americans, Mike.

        Have you ever seen the LAPD most wanted list? Check it out.

        Tell me what you think.

        • Mike Robbins


          Usually the lower strata in any society are forced into crime. For many it is a matter of survival.
          If you are mixed white in South Africa you are a lower strata then the pure black people.
          That is why we must constantly fight this stereotype and work to bring out the best in everyone.

          • LFOldTimer

            “Usually the lower strata in any society are forced into crime. For many it is a matter of survival”

            I don’t buy that. The poor in America live like kings and queens compared the poor in many other countries – and the crime rates are much higher here than there. America is the crime capital of the world. We have more people in jail here than in China. And China’s population if 4 times larger than ours. So your claim doesn’t make sense to me.

          • verifiedsane

            No one is forced into crimes…believe it or not, crime crosses all socioeconomic and race boundaries (just different types and magnitudes of criminal activity occur. In fact, one could make a very good argument that white collar crimes have a larger and more significant impact on our society, people, and nation)…

            A better statement: are violent crime rates higher in impoverished urban areas? statistically yes! The lack of opportunities, lack of employment, failing educational systems, the perpetual welfare state, the break down of the traditional family unit, and illegal immigration all play a role in this failure and the high crime rates in our largest cities (where crimes rates don’t appear to be decreasing in any significant way).

            So what have the liberal politicians who have had pretty much total reign done for the inner cities of America for the past several decades? We know they always make lots of empty promises, pander for their votes and power, give away supposedly free stuff (though nothing is really free, there is always a price, it most cases a very high price), while the ruling political overlords have taking these people for granted while keeping these populations disadvantaged/impoverished & under their self serving thumbs.

            We don’t need a large influx of non-assimilation problems that mass refugee populations from the Middle East will surely bring to our shores. Just look at what is happening throughout Europe…this really isn’t rocket science or brain surgery; just using some common sense….Let’s focus on our own problems, and let the Middle East figure out how to deal with theirs….the creation of protected safe zone and refugee camps is a much better and more practical international solution both long and short term for everyone.

          • Mike Robbins

            I got caught up here in a concept that has no right answer.
            However if we start a war in the middle east we should take in the refugees.

          • LFOldTimer

            Don’t bombard these folks with too much common sense at one time, Verified.

            You might blow one of their circuits. 🙂

      • verifiedsane

        “Yes we created chaos in the middle East” – the Middle East has been in turmoil and full of unrest long before America got involved (pull out your basic world history book for a reference). To say we created the chaos ignores documented history and is a totally ignorant view point not grounded in reality.

        Should we be involved, or to what level of involvement should America have in the Middle East is a much better question that comes without simple cookie cutter or easy answers?

        These are very serious national security, economic, social, and strategic decisions/issues we are going to be grappling with for countless decades to come.

  • verifiedsane

    A little background on (CAIR) from an anti-cair web site to add to the debate –

    • kburgoyne

      Do you have any legitimate references to post?

      • verifiedsane

        There are many links within the web site…But please, do your own web search….I just thought people should get alternitive views and should question CAIR’s agenda and alterable motives.

        If you are going debate whether “CAIR” is a questionable and controversial organization with ties to Hamas and radical Islamic clerics. There is much evidence in the public domain that leads us to draw reasonable rational conclusions.

        But, you better tip toe around the words “radical Islam” or “Muhammad”; they do not tolerate criticism or public scrutiny very well…. 🙂

        • LFOldTimer

          I don’t care what god they worship. What’s the point of saying “My god is better than your god”? It’s puerile and only incites anger. I don’t care what they eat for dinner. I don’t care what color their skin happens to be. I don’t care how they dress. I do care how women are treated in the ME simply from a human rights standpoint. But I couldn’t care less about most of their cultural behaviors. They’re just human beings from a different part of the planet who have formed their own way of life. They can live however they want to live as long as they don’t hurt others in the process.

          But I draw the line when a bunch of their citizens flew airplanes into US high-rise towers, destroyed it and took 3000 innocent lives with it! Yes, I take that personally. And I don’t EVER want it to happen again. For that reason I support Trump on his temporary ban on those from designated ‘high-risk’ terrorist nations until we get our immigration house in order. And after that occurs – lift the ban and be vigilant. Trust but verify.


          Now if some choose to call me a ‘racist’ or a ‘bigot’ for wanting to protect my country from foreign terrorist attacks – go head on. Intelligent readers will understand that you’re just making a*ses of yourselves. .

          • Mike Robbins

            Yes and that is why we need to build a wall around the major crime infested cities and turn them into prisons.
            Bring in Snake Blisken..

          • LFOldTimer

            Not build a wall. Reserve that for the border. Just jail the criminals and throw the ones who don’t belong here out of the country.

            Simple as pie.

          • verifiedsane

            Maybe we should just let that arch-enemy Canada drop a few dozen hockey puck MOAB’s on each city until they cry out “God Save the Queen” – 🙂

          • Mike Robbins

            Blame Canada