• Smeagel4T

    Hahahaha… how can ANYBODY say “put a hotel on the site until it’s needed” with a straight face? Unbelievable. “Hi Mr. Hilton CEO, would you like to invest in building a hotel on our fine site until it’s needed as a cemetery?” The very concept literally sounds like a straight-faced Monty Python comedy skit.

    Put the friggin’ military cemetery on the friggin’ military base and include a history museum about the base. Shoot. Fix up one of the giant hangers as a memorial landmark and reserve plots in it for KIAs and those with high medal honors if they so wish.

    This nation, as represented by its politicians, has never demonstrated any real honor if it comes into the slightest conflict with capitalism.

  • @Dan Chmielewski

    For Emile Haddad or Christina Shea to whine about the landswap is a farce; FivePoint and their consultants gloated over the 2014 elections praying the cemetery would never see the sight of day. Shea fought against it until she found a way to enrich Haddad’s company. Hypocrites! Like Melania Trump lecturing the UN on bullying without calling out her husband

    • Ltpar

      Dan, same song different verse, could get better, but it always get’s worse. Nothing ever changes with you. Give it a rest and get out of denial. You lost both at the federal and local levels, get over it and write about something productive. Oops sorry, I forgot you are a Democrat and the word “productive” doesn’t exist in your vocabulary. .

      • LFOldTimer

        Instead of berating the poster why don’t you respond to the specifics of his comment?

        Or did he stump you?

        • Ltpar

          Definitely did not stump me now or in the past. Responding to Dan is like talking to a brick wall. After years of defending corrupt Larry Agran, Dan wouldn’t know the truth if it came up and kissed him on the lips.

  • worldtrader

    If the council votes for this, it will be on Mayor Wagner. Fox and Shea are on the record as being against the greedy betrayal of the veterans. Wagner was the other vote in favor of the swap, so we will know exactly who betrayed the veterans.

    Glad to see that the developer will pull out of the land swap deal if the city tries to pull a fast one. A developer with more scruples than city politicians. Imagine that.

    • LFOldTimer

      Most of us smelled this or something similar coming.

      Melissa Fox was the swing vote on the land swap which resulted in this mess. Her vote disrespected our vets. It was all about the money. She can run from that vote – but she can’t hide. We wouldn’t find ourselves in this mess if not for her swing vote. She should resign her seat.

      • Ltpar

        What an idiot you are. Melissa Fox might have had some questions about the original site, but she got on board with the alternate site and has been teaming with Christina Shea to make it happen. It was Lalloway and Schott who failed to support Veterans and it now looks like Don Wagner has thrown in with them. That said, when the Veterans show up in mass at the Tuesday night Council meeting and put the pressure on Wagner, let’s see how he votes.

        • @Dan Chmielewski

          Everyone supported the Veterans. Everyone wants a Vets Cemetery. Shea and FivePoints did everything they could to kill it when it was proposed. The original site was ready to go. Landswap meant FivePoint could make serious money. Shea only cares about FivePoint not Vets.

          • Ltpar

            As I recall Dan, while you say the site was ready to go, it in fact would have needed some 70+ million dollars in clean up costs before the construction could have even started. The State was kicking in 30 million and Bully Boy Lalloway wanted to ante up 30 million dollars of Irvine tax dollars. Sixty million still doesn’t get the clean up done, much less provide for construction. Bottom line the Veterans Cemetery would have gone on the back burner like Agran’s Great Park did for ten years. This is why Christina Shea opposed the original site location not that she was looking out for Five Points. They seem to be doing ok on their own. As a Veteran and taxpayer, if Five Points is willing to do Phase 1 of the construction as a condition of the land swap, I have no problem with that. With Shea and Fox on board, the big question is now whether Don Wagner will honor his commitment, or go “politician” and join the forces of those who never wanted a Cemetery in the first place. I am sure that the Veterans will have something to say about that at the Council Meeting on Tuesday?

        • LFOldTimer

          Lalloway and Schott were committed to protecting the promise made to the vets. Melissa Fox and Christina Shea supported the lie. Get your story straight.

          And look where supporting the first lie has taken us. 100 of the 125 acres promised to the vets is now in question – leading to a second lie.

          Fox and Shea need to look in the mirror.

          Melissa Fox and Shea backstabbed the vets.

          • Ltpar

            Here you are still talking like the ignorant fool you appear to be. It is not Shea or Fox who want to change the alternative 125 acre site promised to the veterans. The force behind that ridiculous idea is the City Attorney, City Manager (now in Lallowasy’s pocket) Lalloway, Schott and Wagner is leaning that way. However, the City was just notified by the State that anything less than 125 acres is not acceptable and will void the deal. Five Points is about to make their last and final offer telling the City to either do it or get off the pot. Remember, without Five Points, there is no land donation at either the original or alternate sites. Why don’t you show up at the Council meeting on Tuesday and see who is telling the truth and who is lying.

          • LFOldTimer

            Shea and Fox and Wagner are the ones who got us into this mess by moving the cemetery from the original PROMISED site to the strawberry fields. Can’t you get that fact to stick between your ears?

          • Ltpar

            This mess that you so unintelligibly refer to looks different to me and a host of other veterans. The acreage is exactly the same as the original site (125 acres). As I previously stated, the advantage is Irvine taxpayers do not have to ante up 30 million dollars as a match. It also means that there are no extensive clean up costs estimated to be north of 70 million dollars. With the original site, there would not have been enough money to get the clean up done, much less pay for construction. Tell us o’ wizard of wisdom, just who pays for the construction? At the alternate site, construction can start immediately because Five Points is paying for Phase 1. Only hard-heads like “Bully Boy” Lalloway and you can’t seem to get the big picture in your mind. Wagner will be the swing vote and it will be interesting to see if he ends his political career by double crossing the veterans. Many speculate that Lalloway & Schott are selling their souls to Irvine Company, who never wanted a cemetery in the first place. Both are up for election next year and need the Irvine Company financial support. For them, it is politics ahead of doing the right thing.

          • LFOldTimer

            Could you explain to me with a straight face how after developing 100 acres of land on the strawberry fields with homes and hotels how the City of Irvine would return that land to the vets for future cemetery burial sites? Would the City of Irvine demolish those hotels or homes to make room for more vet burial plots as needed? lol.

            The original sin was the first lie that reneged on a promise to provide our vets with cemetery land on the actual base.

            Now the first lie has morphed into a second lie that would withhold 100 or the 125 strawberry field acreage that was promised to our vets. When the land swap deal was executed there was NO mention of INCREMENTAL DISTRIBUTION of the 125 acres. The agreement was to provide a full 125 acres exclusively for the purpose of a vet cemetery. Now they’re changing the rules of the agreement as they go along.

            How do you spin that?

          • LFOldTimer

            Appears the Lt. had no comeback.

            As I figured.

          • Alec

            If this is actually true, Wagner’s political career is done for. I support the acre-for-acre landswap, as it benefits both the community and the veterans (a better plot of land that’s ideal for the immediate demand for an Orange County veterans cemetery). But if Wagner is trying to pull a fast one on us to deter FivePoints from donating the strawberry fields, the entire concept of a veterans cemetery should be considered abandoned, especially seeing how the city mishandled the construction of the Great Park… if they had enough balls to make it seem like $250 million disappeared, they’d do it with a “measly” $30 million without losing an ounce of sleep. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would say that the city is trying to compensate themselves for the $30 million that would have “disappeared” had the landswap not occurred. The developer does seem to be in the right here. FivePoint is giving up land that is empirically a more prime plot of real estate–closer to Irvine’s business hubs and the Irvine Spectrum. To see that the city may be trying to capitalize on this real estate is despicable. This landswap needs to go through as it was intended: 125 acres transferred IN FULL to the state, not in increments.

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  • LFOldTimer

    These frauds and double-crossers who would spit on a veteran’s grave for profit.

    All of them should be deported to North Korea.

    I’m ashamed of the vets who purportedly represented the OC vets and agreed to the land swap that got us into this mess. They never represented me. That’s for darn sure. Excuse me while I remove the knife from my back.

    • Ltpar

      Perhaps you should get the facts before opening your big mouth. Had the Council stayed with the original site, they would have had to ante up 30 million dollars of Irvine taxpayer money to match the money from the State. That still would not have been enough to cover the estimated costs of clean up of the site. This means no progress on the cemetery for at least ten years. With the alternate site, the cemetery gets the same number of acres and Five Points Developers will build Phase 1 of it. The good thing is construction will start in the near future and should be ready by the time I need it. This means the 30 million from the State can be used on Phase II. The alternate site was good for the Veterans and good for the Irvine taxpayers.

      • LFOldTimer

        Any way you try to spin it the vets were lied to. They moved us into the strawberry fields after promising a parcel on the El Toro base. Naturally that upset the developers that the vet’s remains would negatively impact their profits and the rich foreign nationals thought it was beneath them to live in the general vicinity of a veteran’s cemetery. Who really gives a rat’s behind what foreign nationals think?

        Now that the vets are in the strawberry fields they want to steal 100 of the 125 acres promised to us for commercial development or residential housing.

        This is what Lalloway said:

        “Again, I said this transaction was a mistake and am still in favor of
        keeping it at the original site. We had the money, we had the approvals
        and we would be in construction right now.”

        Who knows more about it? You or him?

        I see that it’s all about the money to you too. Now why don’t you go run off to a Melissa Fox & Silva-Quirk rally?

        Amazing that a vet would defend this crap.

        • Ltpar

          If you believe anything “Bully Boy” Lalloway or his clone Lynn Schott says, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell you cheap. The way Melissa Fox has performed so far standing up against Lalloway and Schott, I might just be running off to one of her rallies and supporting her in the future. One thing for sure, having worked in both Lalloway and Schott’s campaigns in the past, I will be actively working against them in 2018.

  • David Zenger

    It doesn’t look like there’s a single honest character in this farcical opera.